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The roots of conservatism.
I agree with Alexander Brunk's main point over on the main site (unfortunately my screen-reading software doesn't cope well with HTML so I can't post the link and make it look pretty). II intended to post this comment in response, but I decided it was long enough to merit a post of it's own.
There is an increasing tendency to hyphenate our conservatism, which I think is dangerous. In general, I'd describe conservatives as people who, whensome grand new form of social engineering is proposed, stand athwart the train yelling, at the very least, "hold on a minute. Let's think this over shall we?" This is the tendency which unites opponents of redefining marriage with opponents of redefining the role of government; a basic sense that our institutions and liberties have served us well and shouldn't be overturned lightly. Incidentally, I'd argue that defense cons are opposing a redefining of our national interests and defense policy from the common framework we've accepted throughout history. The US has almost never embraced the isolation of the Paulites or the internationalism of the progressive left, and for those who think neoconservatism is some radical form of new foreign policy, I'd recommend a more careful reading of the history of the nineteenth century. Now, this isn't to say that conservatives are lock-step opposed to "change", but we tend to, I think, look for reforming rather than revolutionary change. As Rudi Giuliani brilliantly pointed out in the primary, we should be talking about the kind of change we want, rather than simply talking about change.
This does not mean that every conservative is going to agree about everything all the time. Mike Huckabee and Rudi Giuliani have, policy-wise, fairly little in common. There are also some conservatives who believe that their caution should extend to both fiscal and social issues, but who tend to emphasize one or the other more. However, if we all share this basic caution and skepticism about the social engineering which has fascinated progressives from eugenics to the "new new deal", then we are all conservatives.
I think progressives have a different, more eschatological philosophy. For a progressive (which is a more accurate term than liberal I think), there is always (A) some catastrophic calamity facing society which (B) we have brought on ourselves and which (C) only a radical re-engineering of society can ultimately solve. Eugenicists railed against the polution of "good genes" by hordes of Eastern European immigrants and the handicapped. Their solution was a new, almost unheard of regime of national entry quotas for immigration and the sterilization of those they demed mentally and physically incapable. The recession of 1929, under the progressive presidencies of Herbert Hoover (read Modern Times by Johnson if you disbelieve Hoover was a progressive) and FDR gave birth to the single greatest expansion of the role and scope of government in American history to that point. LBJ fought a war on poverty with yet another such expansion. The calamity of US foreign policy causing all manner of domestic and international ills (the Progressive read not mine) must be met with unilateral nuclear disarmament and a policy of "getting along better" with other nations. Racism could, for progressives, be socialy engineered away by successive government programs from bussing to affirmative action. Finally, in modern times, global warming must be met with another radical reconstruction of our society. Of course, some of these problems (racism) were and are real and others (the fears of eugenicists) were products of progressives' fevered imaginations. Whether real or imagined however, the problems spotted by progressives are almost never solved by them. We need progressives in society, spotting areas which need reform, but we probably ought never actually let them run things.
One more thought. I think that, among some fiscal conservatives, there is a fear that "so-cons" are really social engineers in Christian clothing. This may be true in a few cases, but in general I think you've got nothing to worry about. For the most part, so-cons want to be left alone to live and worship in the way they choose, and they feel that the hostility of culture and government makes this problematic. In many cases, so-cons want to change culture, but through persuasion and the open marketplace of ideas by preference. Unfortunately, much of the media and cultural attention lavished on so-cons portrays them as social engineers. Don't believe the hype.
- A.J.Nolte's blog
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Comments
PLEASE! run against the evil laws that say it is illegal
for the retarded to reproduce. PLEASE!
Your breakdown is interesting. Can you take a look at what Dr. David Brin (another Republican) has to say about the difference between Romanticism and Modernism?
I believe that Conservatism is fundamentally more Romantic than what you describe.
What you're describing is pragmatic Modernism, and it sounds fine to my bleeding progressive heart!
I like some criticism, some questioning of where we are going... but I also like to push the boundaries of "the morality that we can afford."
I sincerely believe that Separationists of all Stripes are a cancer on our society, be they Palin's husband, Dominionists, or Black Panthers.
Racism is a systemic problem -- how do you propose we fix it?
RT: I'm not advocating
RT:
I'm not advocating actually running against the forced sterilization laws, merely citing them as an example of, let's call it progressive enthusiasm. As for Romanticism, I suspect there's a whiff of that to conservatism. The love of the flag and a sense of identity grounded in place have deep significance for many conservatives, and are still important. I don't know that this is incompatible with an understanding of conservatism as fundamentally opposed to social engineering; after all, I think the greatest threat which traditionalists feel comes from social engineers.
Incidentally, I doubt Todd Palin is a separationist in any meaningful sense. The Alaska Independence Party is hardly a threat, and I suspect that the same can be said of the others you mention. Dominionists are an interesting case in that they are quite hard-core theonamists (those who believe in rule directly by the laws of God). Most so-cons are hardly dominionists; it's a rather controversial interpretation of the New Testament to argue that Christ died and rose again so that modern nation states could be ruled by the 613 Moseic laws. Not that I think you're actually doing this, but many equate Dominionism and social conservatism, which is like calling an American progressive a Maoist.
Anyway, thanks for the comments.
I like the idea of social engineering.
It is necessary to the preservation of free markets, after all.
See, I'm more of a modernist than a romantic -- and I'd love for Conservatives to be interested in new ideas. I would rather see a Conservatism that says "small ideas" rather than "old ideas", and better yet "practical ideas."
I think the most pernicious Romanticism is racism and xenophobia in the South.
To say that you're for old ideas -- will you support Quaker Marriage, instead of wrapping it in court with challenges?
(also, naturally you're not advocating running against the laws that make it illegal for retarded women to bear children. I'm advocating that, as they're dumb law).
I am always glad to see the crazies marginalized. However, I do not see that happening in the Republican party. The Religious Right has finally won their battle against the Godless Rich. Pyrrhic victory, mark my words.
There is often too much heated rhetoric on all sides -- I wonder if someone would care to elaborate on what the divisions within social conservatism are? Obviously on the leftwing sites I frequent, we hear about extremes. But I'd like to hear about the whole megillah.
From my perspective, Social Conservatives are constantly engaged in Dover Trap social engineering, constantly looking for activist judges to invalidate older decisions, and constantly beggaring small communities in which they don't even live. Not that everyone who is a social conservative has to like this. Right wing religion trends authoritarian, no matter who they pray to.
Racism deserves it's own separate reply...
And probably actually deserves it's own post as well. Or a book. Or a life's work. Let me try to give a quick answer though.
1. I don't think it's "systemic" so much as cultural and social. Let me give an example of the difference. To my mind, systemic racism is that in which societal/institutional factors are the primary drivers of racism. Apartheit would b an example, as wood Jim Crow. Systemic racism is the easiest form to deal with, but is rarely the root of the problem. Cultural racism results when the idea that certain characteristics are endemic to a certain race becomes culturally engrained. For example, the statements "blacks are all criminals" or "Hispanics are all lazy" would be examples of cultural racism. Social racism is one in which non-political social factors maintain racial barriers. Ghettoization, social presures for racial groups to fit into specific stereotypes (particularly social pressures to under-perform), social constraints which limit the opportunity of one racial group, would all be examples of social racism.
2. Now, here's where I think the difference between progressives concerned by racism and conservatives concerned by racism comes into play. A Progressive will say that either (A) racism is primarily manifested in these systemic factors or (B) government action can eliminate the cultural and social elements of racism. Conservatives concerned by racism tend to argue that either (A) systemic/political racism does not exist or (B) that the well-intentioned progressive programs to eliminate social/cultural racism are actually bringing it back.
3. I tend to dissent, mildly, from conservatives in that I believe that systemic/political racism, while considerably decreased and less significant than it's social/cultural cousin, does in fact exist, all be it (A) the motivations are rarely explicitly racial and (B) it tends to be local. You can, at least in part, argue that bad healthcare, schools and housing in many majority-minority areas is due in part at least to bad government. I think, as I've mentioned before, the GOP--in that we've ignored majority-minority areas and allowed them to become one-party fiefdoms--is a little bit culpable here. However, I'm skeptical that government will be able to genuinely eliminate social/cultural racism. The roots run deeper than government can pull. For example: why is our most segregated hour of the week the one in which we worship? Can the government fix this problem? If they could, would it not almost certainly violate the First Amendment? I think a lot of responsibility for "fixing racism" lies with the people, with churches, community groups, local communities and, in some very rare and specific cases, local governments. But the first step would almost certainly have to be for individuals to make themselves absolutely non-racist. That's extremely difficult, but important.
I don't know if this really fixes the problem, but I think it's a start.
One more thing:
The emphasis on "white privilege" at modern colleges and universities is rediculous and counter-productive. First, it's incredibly narcisistic and mainly designed to expiate the white guilt of professors and create it in their students. The real problem would be more accurately minority underprivilege, but fixing that would actually require work and personal sacrifice rather than consciousness-raising classes at colleges designed to make white kids "confess" to benefiting from their skin-tone. Contrary to it's intention, it doesn't help make these kids any less racist either. After all, if they can pass off their advantages and successes onto society, the underperformance of minorities will naturally become society's problem, about which they can feel bad but don't actually have to take any action. So if we make racism a structural issue of "white privilege" about which we feel very very bad and will hold a seminar next week it saves us from having to do the really hard work of relationship-building, reconciliation and so forth.
I ain't never heard one word about white priviledge
and I went to an elite school.
Maybe you got it in some of those liberal artsy classes I APed out of.
Whites do got priviledge, no doubt about it. Anyone who says they don't, ain't read the research.
75% of an average white person's wealth comes from racist policies (chief among which is the Homestead Act). That's just the hard cold numbers. Ain't no use to cry about it, just to understand it.
if there's someone who does need some trainin' on "white priviledge" -- can we please give it to those mortgage lenders? 50% of Massachussetts mortgage lenders were discriminating on the basis of skin color. And 25% of North Carolina's too. Yes, please. Some of these people need to be taught right from wrong, and scam from straight talk. (not to say that they weren't screwing anyone they could find, mind.)
I have NEVER heard of a class designed to make kids confess. And I regularly attend seminars at the Center for Race and Social Problems. Maybe you went to some other school... But most of the researchers on race are Black, Hispanic, Jewish. Not white.
If we could enroll everyone in Americorps for a year, it would do more for this country than demanding that everyone finish college before they qualify for a job.
I agree that relationship building, hell, even a paint can or a bowling alley, does a better job than just acknowledging that there is a problem. But some of us INSIST on numbers before we act -- and after that, testing to see what works.
. But some of us
. But some of us INSIST on numbers before we act -- and after that, testing to see what works. tiffany & co