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Conservatives vs. Reformers?
Two weeks ago, I attended the National Review Institute's post-election conference, titled "Whither Conservatism?" The final forum of the day was on the future of the conservative movement, and included some fantastic panelists with different perspectives on the question we've all been trying to answer: where do we go from here?
David Brooks was the moderator. He has stated that the Republican party right now is split between the "reformers" and the "traditionalists" - with the reformers dedicated to moving the party forward and the traditionalists wanting to "go back" to the old ideas of the 80s and 90s.
He's taken a lot of flack for this. But he's hardly the only person to try to corral the various parts of the conservative movement and the GOP into two factions.
Others have claimed the grand struggle is between between moderates and conservatives, social cons vs. libertarians, etc...
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter of Michigan, Chairman of the House GOP Policy Committee, probably had the most interesting way of splitting us up, identifying the principle struggle as being between "globalists" and "traditionalists":
Globalists tend to view America as an economy, not a country. The traditionalists tend to view it as a country — a very delicate microcosm, a collection of individuals with different hopes, dreams, aspirations.
I would take a different tack and say that, fundamentally, the conflict in the GOP is between the people who were satisfied with where we were as a party in 2003-04, and those of us who weren't. Between the people who are satisfied with the GOP holding power and stopping a liberal agenda, and people who actually want the GOP to push a serious plan to reduce the size of government.
But we shouldn't spend too much time thinking about dividing ourselves up into camps. Thats not a constructive way to move forward.
On the panel at the National Review Institute, Ross Douthat spent some time talking about how to appeal to suburban voters, with increased child tax credits and the like. Jonah Goldberg, on the other hand, and the representative from CATO stated that it was the duty of conservatives to speak truth to power, even when going against popular opinion. And more to the point, that we aren't going to inspire people to get involved and believe in the conservative movement with a increased child tax credit.
But these two ideas aren't mutually exclusive. There are different roles in this for different members of the coalition. Social conservatives aren't standing in the way of libertarians pushing for a reduction in the size of government. Many of the most libertarian-minded elected officials in the GOP are also pro-life (even Ron Paul). Nor are the Ross Douthats of the world who are trying to lay out winning strategies for appealing to suburban voters preventing think tanks from developing grand plans for reducing the size and scope of government.
We're all in this together, and we all have a role to play. Be wary of anyone trying to tell you that you have to fight someone else in the party or the movement in order for us to succeed. Thats not how we're going to rebuild the party.
Crossposted at SavetheGOP.com


Comments
what if we don't want you to rebuild the party?
your base is shrinking, and you were a minority party all through GW Bush's reign...
What is the point of rebuilding the party?
well, perhaps unwittingly you've shown
than some Democrats harbor warm feelings about one party states. Thanks
then you haven't been listening
you are at a fundamental strategic disadvantage with the current Republican party. I should think you'd like to win elections, but... apparently you don't want to hear what strategists have to say.
I believe firmly in civil discourse, and I think that there are yet some useful ideas lurking within the Republican Party. There are also some poisonous ideas, and some ideas that are fundamentally unconstitutional. Sadly, I can see which faction is in control.
You keep denying your fascist tendencies and yet
there you go promoting one-party rule. C'mon man just admit it, Jonah Golberg has your kind pegged to a tee.
are there just two sides?
can it be all of these sects? I believe that it is. In addition, it's the entirety of this group vs the liberal illuminati. That's where the challenge lies- in creating cohesion out of many puzzle pieces.
To Brooks,"reform" means moving left
Perhaps dear David needs a lesson. if the folks who want to relive 1994 are "traditionalists", then liberal Republicans who want to relive the 1960's are "reactionaries"
I like that
Brooks is the token Republican of the leftist New York Times. He knows his place and doesn't do anything to offend his "betters". So he has to learn to say "yes sah" and keep his head down.
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter's definition will do...
That said, I marvel at the speed with which Mr. Brunk reduces the "Whither Conservatism" question into some minor squabble within the Republican Party.
It isn't.
Conservatism and the Republican Party are not the same thing.
Also, his assumption that "the conflict in the GOP is between the people who were satisfied with where we were as a party in 2003-04, and those of us who weren't." is incorrect.
The support of Bush and his Republicans in 03-04, and Bush's subsequent reelection, was a result of loyal Americans (McCotter's "Traditionalists" if you will) rallying around their president in a time of war. No more, no less.
At the time both Bush and the Republicans deluded themselves into thinking that the 04 election was a mandate for the Republican party irself.
It wasn't.
If you doubt this, remember that the support for Bush (and those fatted Republicans basking in his glow) evaporated after his 05 state of the union address when he pledged to put his millions of illegal alien friends on a path to citizenship.
From that moment on it was all down hill.
The refusal of the Republicans to reject Bush's globalist view of America left McCotter's "Traditionalists" no choice but to abandon the Republicans to their electoral fates in 06 and 08.
Will the Republicans "reach out" to those traditionalists?
I can't say.
But I can say a growing number of those "Traditionalists" aren't waiting around for that to happen.
The divisions are important...
...in analyzing the problem. There are some fundamental issues:
1. The GOP has been sold to the Christian right.
2. The GOP claims of individual liberty and smaller government have been a Big Lie at least since I was born in the 70s. (I figured out when I was six years old in the 80s that huge deficits, flag-burning amendments, anti-abortion crusades, and the constant impulse toward Christian theocracy lay in direct contradiction to alleged conservative principles.)
3. Conservative ideas don't work. From 2001-2006 y'all controlled the executive and the legislative and had a pretty sympathetic judiciary. It's been an orgy of cronyism and kleptocracy, torture and the decay of civil liberties. Bush was your boy. Cheney, Lott, DeLay, Ashcroft: all the high masters of the Republican Party got the power they worked so hard for. It didn't go well.
If the principles you're interested in are small government, free markets and individual liberty, and those represent conservatism to you, you should explore the idea that the Republican Party hasn't been conservative since Goldwater, if not before.
(The LA Times has a great bit on the true geneaology of the GOP: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-gabler30-2008nov30,0,635817.story .)
Wrong!
1. The Christain right is but one part of the conservative colation. Just as militant atheists, religious leftists, and neo-pagan dirt worshippers are simply parts of the liberal colation.
2. We are attempting to be the party that promotes individual responsibility and self-reliance, even if some RINOs do not really agree with that premise. The real theocrats are the Isamofascists that your side appeases and and whose votes you welcome. Really beyond supporting the the right to abortion (even at taxpayer expense), gays to marry and other trivial issues concerning sexuality there is very little the left offers that is pro-freedom since it is basically a statist ideology.
3. The Bush Administration was not conservative. It was at best, pro-military liberals (a la Scoop Jackson) with some conservative leanings.
As for Goldwater, I prefer his 1964 campaign legacy and not his later confused legacy that endorsed Clinton, and even Gerald Ford over Reagan in 1976 (after Reagan stumped hard for him during that campaign). In fact his treatment of many supporters of that campaign, was a sure sign that conservatism hadn't left goldwater but the other way around.
Are you implying that CAIR...
Is full of islamofascists? Or that Muslims in general are islamofascists?
the GOP's other big problem
Exemplified well enough by labeling Muslim-Americans "Islamofascists" (as though that has any meaning beyond the bogeyman hand-waving of Limbaugh and O'Reilly) is that the practical foundations of the Republican Party are misogyny, racism, and homophobia, all nestled comfortably in a bed of anti-intellectualism.
What America has finally discovered is that you can't build a functioning nation by encouraging citizens to hate and fear each other (yes, we share the country with some Muslims). To quote one of my favorite movies: we have serious problems, and we need serious people to solve them. As soon as the GOP is ready to grow up and join an exchange of ideas instead of shouting at the rain in a paranoid obsession with being a victim, we're ready to listen.
That's probably not going to come from blog commenters, though. :-)
the GOP's other big problem
Quiet
Yeah, my wife likes that movie, too (you bet, the Crime bill will solve the crime problem President Sheppard!!!)
I'm afraid that I've grown tired of the Republican Party being labeled anti-intellectual. Exactly how? Is using faith to fill in Grand Canyon sized gaps in our understanding of life anti-intellectual? Albert Eistein was deeply religious and I've NEVER heard him described as anti-intellectual. Is the belief that abortion might not be such a good idea, from a scientific point of view ,anti-intelluctual? How is questioning man-made global warming anti-intellectual? The AGW crowd will be the fools in about 10 years. How is belief that someone else making all the tough decisions for you (ie the nanny state) anti-intellectual? What major problem has ANY government solved? Just who is anti-intellectual?
Oh, If you don't know what is meant by the term Islamofacist and exactly who that refers to then you need to quit reading the DailyKos and get out more.
Many "intellectuals' are merely Eloi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Machine
They are simply too genteel to deal with the evil in society. But when chaos envelopes their pristine little world, they are the first to want some burly cop from Staten Island with a bad attitude; or some kid from the Midwest who enlisted in the military , to restore order to their world. Like any other unpleasantness, they think this drudgery can be outsourced to others..
Of course, far be it for the commoners to actually aspire to leadership. Can;t have that, you know. Don't the proles know their place?
Albert einstein was Jewish
and his 'deeply religious' beliefs got him declared a heretic, basically.
Sure he talked about God, but I figure he meant it the same way Jefferson did -- as an abstraction, not a personal type thing.
Most scientists are Empiricists, but they are also religious. These are not contradictory things.
Questioning Global warming is tomfoolery. It displays an astounding ignorance of where our planet is, and the very real danger that we will lose our Class M status. It also displays that people would rather believe oil companies than trendlines.
To say that you support BigBusiness buying your executives (i.e. no regulation at any price), and then to get pissy about the insurance companies' mandate of a nanny state just shows that people can't see special interests for what they are.
Islamofascist is merely the Christian Right's way of telling everyone that they've decided that it's no longer cool to hate the Jews, and instead that they're going to hate the Muslims instead. For, at least theoretically, wanting to do exactly what the religious right wants to do to America -- that is, turn it back into a state where whatever they declare is right, instead of a fact based, number based world.
I hate liberal artsy folks, and the religious set is the worst! (not to say that all religious folk are bad, but when I can cite Aquinas and Hillel on the side of "the bible ain't perfect"... maybe there is room for disagreement? maybe the sun doesn't circle the earth?)
(does your prayerbook mention DNA? ;-)
that word...
Einstein isn't considered anti-intellectual because his religion was closer to Thomas Jefferson's than Billy Graham's:
In a 1930 New York Times article, Einstein distinguished three styles which are usually intermixed in actual religion. The first is motivated by fear and poor understanding of causality, and hence invents supernatural beings. The second is social and moral, motivated by desire for love and support. Einstein noted that both have an anthropomorphic concept of God. The third style, which Einstein deemed most mature, is motivated by a deep sense of awe and mystery. He said, "The individual feels ... the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves in nature ... and he wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole." Einstein saw science as an antagonist of the first two styles of religion, but as a partner of the third style."Intellectual" doesn't mean "I read a bunch of books and now I can provide footnotes to prove anything I want". It is fundamentally anti-intellectual to start from your conclusion--deregulation is good, state-run anything is bad, the earth was created 6000 years ago, all Democrats are soft on crime, all Republicans are gun-toting Bible-thumpers--and work backwards to establish your reasoning. Einstein was an intellectual because he started from the facts and followed them, as openly as possible, to their conclusion, whatever it turned out to be, not whatever he wanted it to be. To a couple of your specific points:
The first one
CAIR is simply a front group for Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Jihadist groups in the Middle East. That and the fact that are few "moderate" muslims, the one that are not islamofascist usually remain silent because the islamofascists hate muslims who make nice with us infidels more than us infidels.
CAIR was designated an unindicted coconspirator...
by the US government in the first Holy land Foundation Trial.
CAIR was founded by the muslim brotherhood whose expressed aim, accoding to evidence presented at the HLF trial, is too bring the American government down by its own hand.
CAIR members have expressed their support for Hamas.
CAIR is currently being charged with bilking its own members out of thousands of dollars in bogus lawyers fees charged by a non lawyer they hired. in order to protect the bogus lawyer, CAIR demanded the victims sign an agreement to remain silent. If the victims spoke up, they had to pay CAIR a $25,000 penalty.
in fact all activities being conducted by CAIR at this moment are illegal due to the loss of their 501status.
Does this make CAIR an organization full of islamofacists?
Well, if an organization run by neo nazis did the same thing as CAIR, would you say that organization was full of racists? Sure you would.
"As soon as the GOP is ready to grow up and join an exchange of ideas instead of shouting at the rain in a paranoid obsession with being a victim, we're ready to listen."
this is absolutely hilarious.
Obama's success (and the success of the dems/liberals and CAIR like infestations) is totally dependent on a "paranoid obsession with being a victim"
Can't be any exchange of ideas with those incapable of discerning fact from fiction. Right quiet?
Sad. Hilarious, but sad.
pity that first trial was HUNG wasn't it
despite barbarous trial tactics which just consisted of showing people blown to bits on the monitor, again and again.
I may not like the actions of the Holy Land Foundation, but when you consider that the RED CROSS did the EXACT SAME actions (dealing with Hamas, which has a charitable wing), well, go suck on a fig. Because that's about what you're doing, believing the gov't evidence without question.
huh.
'Obama's success (and the success of the dems/liberals and CAIR like infestations) is totally dependent on a "paranoid obsession with being a victim"'
Really? How so?
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