Crossposted at Right Minds

There’s been a lot of careless talk, on both sides of the political aisle, warning that the other political party will transform the United States into a totalitarian state. Most of such talk can be safely ignored; nothing Bush did could have turned America into Mussolini’s Italy, and Barack Obama’s economic policies, while excessively overreaching and aggressive, aren’t out of the Lenin playbook.

Congress’ decision to tax the now infamous AIG bonuses at (or near) 100% is not totalitarianism—it is an understandable, if wholly irrational, response to something that seems (but isn’t) unjust, and something that provides ample ammunition for populists. But it is a fascistic thing to do, and is worrying.

It takes more than one isolated incident to provide proof, or even evidence, that the nation is on its way to fascism. But then, it is equally true that in any totalitarian government, there is one act that is the first step along the road to tyranny.

Congress’ response to the bailouts is undeniably unjust, and hypocritical, and wrong. Levying a tax only on those who received bonus money from AIG is probably an example of an ex post facto law, and represents of the actions of a government who is willing to forcibly take any money it feels is undeserved.  

Even if we assume that those AIG employees shouldn’t have received those bonuses, Congress’ actions are no more justified, given that AIG was authorized to hand out those bonuses in the stimulus bill. It is one thing to pass an ex post facto law, but to pass an ex post facto law that reverses a law that you yourself made only a few weeks earlier is the height of chutzpah.  

Congress is trying to do what is right here, but they are going about it in very much the wrong way. The end doesn’t justify the means, and creating an unjust law in order to right a perceived wrong is unacceptable. That sort of thing doesn’t belong in a democracy—it works better in totalitarianism.

Congress’ actions here are high-handed, and unjust. Do they mean that the nation is headed for totalitarianism? No. Just like one swallow does not make a spring, one unjust action is not ample evidence for accusations of fascism. But even if Congress’ proposal here isn’t a sign of impending fascism, it’s still worrying.

First, because it sets a dangerous pattern. No one in our government wants to set up a authoritarian regime now. But if some one ever does want to, it’s laws like this one that provide such people with a precedent, and which undercuts justice and the rule of law. Bad laws have consequences.

Second, the popularity of this proposed law (and really, any amount of popularity is too much in this case) says something about our nation. If this law is really unjust, what does it say about our country that nearly everyone is willing to accept it at the very least, and that many people actively support it? When totalitarianism comes, it is seldom the result of a one man power grab. It usually comes because the population prefers security over freedom.

Will that happen here? Eventually, maybe, but probably not now. (And it is possible that it will all be a moot point—most of the AIG employees involved have bowed under the pressure and returned their bonuses, which would make any law unnecessary) But as Jefferson said, “the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” Anyone, left or right, who loves liberty should oppose this punitive, ex post facto law. It is wrong and dangerous.  

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The real reason the right should be worried

The REAL reason the right should be and is worried about the popularity of the AIG bonus clawback is this: it is evidence that the American people no longer believe "the market" is "self regulating".

Umm . . . the AIG fiasco is an example of government regulation

Congress is essentially a lazy and reactive body, and really didn't do any heavy lifting on the TARP legislation. Obama doesn't appear to have much interest in oversight either. The AIG bonus mess is a peek at what will happen when government gets involved in heavily regulating the market: 

-The AIG bonuses were specifically allowed under the bailout legislation.  No one notices until the public cries foul.

-The House then voted through a retro tax provision to the tune of 90% on the bonuses that their own incompetence allowed in the first place.

- Now they are discovering that that tax will also affect other companies and individuals they did not intend to tax. (Minimum Alternative Tax anyone?)

-So Obama starts backpedaling and leaves Barney Frank twisting in the wind. Beautiful.

Give me "the market" any day.

 

Nice try, but it is obvious where the blame lies.

Where does the blame lie? AIG.

The blame for what?

The bonuses?

AIG would be out of business if the government had not stepped in. There would be no bonus issue. But they "bought" AIG for the US taxpayer (we own 80% of AIG). So when you say the "blame" lies with AIG, you are saying it lies with us (as represented by our congress and president). So if you are able to do the mental gymnastics required to think that the congress and the president have done a fantabulous job of managing our new investment, go ahead. I prefer to live in reality. We have bailed out an immense corporation involved in a highly complex business, and our elected leaders do not have the expertiece to manage it.  

 

  

 

And what would the consquences of a collapse be

And if AIG had been allowed to collapse? How would that have worked out? Remember what happened after Lehman??

I, like the rest of the American people, have no problem in believing that AIG is to blame for AIG, while at the same time believing that the Obama Administration is doing an OK job in a very difficult situation.

CBS Poll from yesterday:

SHOULD AIG HAVE PAID BONUSES?

  • Had to pay 13%
  • Could have found a way not to pay 83

SHOULD GOV’T. TRY TO RECOVER AIG BONUS MONEY?

  • Yes 77%
  • No 20

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT AIG PAYING BONUSES TO EXECUTIVES?

  • Angry 50%
  • Bothered 38
  • Not bothered 12

OBAMA’S HANDLING OF AIG BONUS SITUATION

  • Approve 41%
  • Disapprove 42
  • Don’t know/not sure 17

OBAMA JOB PERFORMANCE

  • Approve        64%
  • Disapprove 20
  • Don’t know 16

HOW MUCH CONTROL DID OBAMA ADMIN HAVE OVER AIG BONUSES?

  • A lot 12%
  • Some 28
  • Not much 22
  • None 29

SHOULD OBAMA ADMIN HAVE STOPPED THE BONUSES?

  • Yes 56%
  • No 34

OBAMA HANDLING ECONOMY

  • Approve 61%
  • Disapprove 29
  • Don’t know 10

CONFIDENCE IN TREAS. SEC TIM GEITHNER?

  • A lot 13%
  • Some 41
  • Not much 20
  • None 15
  • Don’t know 11

 

How nice for you and the rest of the American people

If they had been allowed to fail, the market and the economy would have corrected much sooner than it is going to.

Obama and Congress had 100% control over the bonuses BEFORE they doled out the $170 Billion dollars to them, get it? They all failed to do that.

You hopeychangers are in for a rude awakening.

Please explain the benefits

Please explain the benefits that were realized by allowing Lehman to collapse.

And you can keep on going with the bonus blame game, but like the ear-marks BS of a few weeks ago, everyone sees it for what it is: hypocritical game playing around the edges that does nothing to address the 100X larger central issue.

We'd still have $170 Billion Dollars?

Ear-mark BS?

Oh yeah, good point. Our impotent president couldn't do anything about that $9 Billion dollars either. Even while controlling both houses of congress and promising no more earmarks in his campaign. But no, this was . . . what was it? . . .oh yeah, "last year's business". Talk about BS. Thats some twisted logic. Do you not recognize political spin when you see it?

I hope we don't have another 3 years 8 1/2 months of "my dog ate my homework", "It's not my job" and my favorite "it was this way when we got here".

Did you hear anything about a $10 trillion dollar deficit over the next ten years, or is that more right wing spin?

And I hope we do have another 3 years 8 1/2 months

And I hope we do have another 3 years 8 1/2 months of people with your viewpoints representing the face of the right in this nation. Becasue here is what it produces:

OBAMA JOB PERFORMANCE

  • Approve        64%
  • Disapprove 20
  • Don’t know 16

 

Just Like Bush

Three months into his presidency. Almost identical.

Check those numbers again in six months.

Except that Bush

Except that Bush inherited a budget that was IN SURPLUS and did not inherit the quagmire in Iraq or an economy teetering on the brink of disaster. Other than those small quibbles, your comparision was apt. See you in six months.

Of course the market is self-regulating.

They will learn this simple lesson sooner or later. The market is the only thing that is accurately reflecting the economic truth today. I just wish Pres. Bush would have also shared this convection and allowed Wall Street and the banking industry to follow this truth.

I am getting tired of government officials asking for and receiving more and more power, with Republican support, on the premise that if they don't get this new power, it will be catastrophic for the economy. 

For the record, I don't believe this lie now. I didn't believe it when it was first proposed.

Please save our economic future. LET THE MARKET FORCES PREVAIL!!!!!!!!!!

ex animo

davidfarrar

When the market is set up in such a way

When the market is set up in such a way so that the employees of a company are paid for failure, it is not self-regulating.

Us little peons see that the checks and balances that are supposed to require the Masters of the Universe to exercise some restraint, so that as they get very rich we all get a little richer, are no longer in place.

it's a con. people keep

it's a con.

people keep clinging to the "market forces" argument as if the system isn't rigged.  it's heartwarming really. what you believe about the market is exactly what the people who actually run the market want you to believe about. they don't believe it, that's why they have all the money.

 

Strawman argument

Hallmark of the Obama administration.

Yawn . . .

I take it you are yawning

I take it you are yawning because you just woke up after 30 years of deregulation. It's easy to be confused.

No

It was your tired comment.

 

I apologize

You were right! While Buffet and Gates lost billions, the real "Master of the Universe" was making big money, even coming out of retirement to do it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1164771/Im-having-good-crisis-says-hedge-fund-manager-1billion-world-plunged-recession.html

 

There is nothing make-believe...

...about our bankruptcy laws. If we would have allowed the failing banks to go into bankruptcy we could have restructure our lending institutions without spending a dime of the taxpayers money.

What the fascists in our present government really want you to believe is that we need them to protect us against ourselves.

ex animo

davidfarrar