What the Tiller Assassination Means

Crossposted at Right Minds

I was saddened and appalled, though not really shocked, over the news about the murder of noted abortionist George Tiller. Tiller was one of my least favorite people, and his work providing late term abortions was truly evil, though no worse than any other abortionist. However, slaughtering those who disagree with us on moral issues is both wrong and ineffective, and I, like all pro-lifers, condemn the murder and the man who committed it.

Some wonder why, if abortion is truly murder, it is not moral to kill as many abortionists as possible in order to reduce the number of abortions. (It is mostly, in fact almost exclusively, pro-choicers who pose this question). It is possible that Tiller’s murderer used that reasoning—Tiller was one of few abortionists who did late term abortions, so many of his potential clients will have nowhere else to go for abortions. Pro-lifers condemn the murder of George Tiller—but why, if it prevented murder?

There are, I think, two reasons such actions are wrong. The first is the ineffectiveness of such killings—any drop in the number of abortions as a result of Tiller’s death will probably be more than offset by the ill-will garnered by the pro-life movement as a result of the killing. Assassinations, as Brutus, Booth, and Čabrinović, found out, don’t usually work the way they are intended to.

The second reason is that we live in a democracy, and unless people consent to be governed by the laws made by the majority, democracy is meaningless. If the proper response to disagreement is violence, then democracy is undermined. Everyone owes allegiance to the state and to society, provided that society is just.

If the society is just, of course, rebellion may be a just and moral thing to do—those Germans who conspired against Hitler during World War II were probably justified in doing so. But I think it is hard to argue that contemporary American society is so unjust as to be illegitimate, and violence in this situation is quite wrong. An analogous situation is that of blacks during the forties, fifties, and sixties. The racial prejudice they faced was wrong—but the proper response was not murder. Had Martin Luther King used bullets instead of words, he would be remembered today as the same sort of monster as Scott Roeder, George Tiller’s murderer.

Pro-lifers who commit violence are in the wrong. Every pro-lifer realizes that. But the reaction of much of the media intentionally ignores this fact, and much of the analysis of this crime amounts to what is really nothing more than a smear job against those whom oppose abortion.

Pro-lifers have been protesting Tiller for years. Bill O’Reilly (who, by the way, isn’t pro-life—he supports abortion rights) has devoted a great many shows towards exposing Tiller. The idea is that all that protesting and exposing inspired Roeder to do what he did, making the pro-life movement partially responsible for Tiller’s murder.

This charge is slander, and honestly I cannot see how anyone could make it in good faith. No movement can be held accountable for the actions of everyone who shares its goals, and the pro-life movement is no exception. Roeder is a nut with a history of potential violence (he has been arrested before for having bomb materials in his car), and had little movement (aside from the odd blog comment) with the pro-life movement. Every pro-life group condemns, and has always condemned, violence, and Roeder acted without any encouragement from any pro-life group.

It is not only pro-life extremists who spread violence. Ecoterrorism is relatively common, and anti-war protesters are notorious for vandalism. Monday, a man shot and killed an army recruiter—he was a convert to Islam and his motive was almost certainly dissatisfaction with U.S. foreign policy, something that most liberals share. Are mainstream, anti-war liberals to be held accountable for the actions of this man?

Of course not, since they have always condemned such violence. Pro-lifers have always condemned such violence too, and bear no responsibility for the death of George Tiller.  

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Cut the self-righteous crap

[...]Pro-lifers have always condemned such violence too, and bear no responsibility for the death of George Tiller. 

Frank Schaeffer, who with his father was one of the aggressive peddlers of anti-choice ideas, has commendably accepted part of the blame for the Tiller murder, admitting that he and his kind contributed to the atmosphere of hate. Unfortunately, he fails with this bit in the middle.

Contributing to an extreme and sometimes violent climate has not only been the fault of the antiabortion crusaders. The Roe v. Wade decision went to far, too fast and was too sweeping. I believe that abortion should be legal. But I also believe that it should be re-regulated according to fetal development. It's the late term abortions that horrify most people. And for the sake of keeping abortion legal adjustments need to be made. Roe is far too all or nothing (as I explain in my book Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All -- or Almost All -- of It Back). As I say in my book today I believe that abortion should be legal but more regulated than Roe allows. I also think that we should do what President Obama calls for: use sex education and contraceptive distribution and programs to help women and children in a way that results in less abortions.

No, not good enough. Abortion must remain a decision between a woman and her doctor…crazy evangelists (or ex-evangelists) and senators have no part in it. And the late term abortions? I am so fed up with the oh-so-concerned "pro-lifers" being "horrified" by them -- those abortions are carried out when the pregnancy is threatening the life of the mother. Those are specifically decisions from which some patriarchal relic should be ejected. Does he really hope to place more obstacles and more stress in the way of frightened and often grieving women?

And speaking of not-pologies, look at Randall Terry's.

"George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches."

Randall Terry is available for comment at FUK-YOU-TERY

He's more concerned about the government response to a murder by zealots like him? And he's afraid the government will close down his most effective actions…like what, murder? Or is he afraid his ability to terrify frightened women and harass health care professionals might be limited? Way to place your priorities, man.

As for being available for comment, I hope no one bothers with the grandstanding ghoul.

 

Isaza proves why zealots will always be near by...

with this fetid dropping: "And the late term abortions? I am so fed up with the oh-so-concerned "pro-lifers" being "horrified" by them -- those abortions are carried out when the pregnancy is threatening the life of the mother. Those are specifically decisions from which some patriarchal relic should be ejected."

Not true.  Even late-term abortionists have argued that the majority of these abortions are done NOT to save the life of the mother... in the US, something like <3% of all late-term abortions are done because the fetal development has changed to threaten the life of the mother.

The top four (4) reasons from an '87/'95 study?

  • 71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
  • 48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
  • 33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
  • 24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion

"Patrichal relic" or just fact-challenged... you need to get a new act, Isaza.

And you need to find a way to embrace the truth.

The facts in Kansas prove you wrong.

Nice job there with the "stats" from an unnamned study. But why don't you ponder this extremely simple sequence of facts: Tiller's specialty was late-term abortions. His practice was public, and licensed. Late-term abortions are permitted under Kansas law in only two circumstances.  The first exception allows for the procedure to save the life of the mother. The second allows a late term abortion if continuation of the pregnancy would result in a "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function" of the pregnant woman.

So - either Tiller was operating illegally out in the open, OR  he was preventing death and harm to his patients.

There were several politically-motivated attempts to prosecute him, and all of them failed, becasue he was a legal practice. Therefore, your bogus stats are meaningless.

 

 

Indeed

 

The stats vary depending upon the state -- How many are really where the life of the mother was threatened?  How many are for (utterly understandable) cases where the baby was not going to make it anyway (anacephalic, etc.)?  How many are, well, other? -- obviously states which are less restrictive on late term abortions are more likely to have them done for the “other” reasons.

Kansas requires that to do a late term abortion there must be a second opinion that continuing the pregnancy will lead to “substantial and irreversible harm” to the mother. This frequently means pregnancies where survival of the baby is in question.

Tiller was acquitted on criminal charges based upon the above criteria.

Jai Ho Tied, please consult with Nannie

because you're both on the wrong side of understanding this issue properly... but then, it wouldn't be the first time you've ventured out a limb to comment on something you're clearly ignorant and lacking in either scope or depth.

You're really giving liberals a bad name, Jai Ho Tied.  Really bad name, that.

Nannie, it is THE leading study, you ignorant twit

Of course, one would expect someone like you who is so willing to post a derogatory, dismissive comment like yours that you'd AT LEAST BE CONVERSANT on the salient studies undertaken on this issue.

But that's not you, is it NextRightNannie?  You're just about the contrarian position and defending the Liberal Sacred Cow, whichever one it is this day, this thread, no?  Right, I thought so.

The study is the Guttmacher Institute's 87 and 95 extensive research studies of the REASONS why women elect to have late-term abortions.  Guttmacher and the CDC are the only two medical establishments that harvest the information --and both are viewed as highly reliable and their methodologies withstand professional peer scrutiny.  Google it, Nannie; learn before you speak so you can stop proving your ignorance far & wide.

Did you know Tiller was arraigned on misdemeanor charges for his clinic's repeated failures to attest and report the reasons why he was coercing  assisting women into having late-term abortions?  Tiller was operating improperly as far as Kansas law was concerned; a jury and incompetent prosecutorial team were unable to convict him.  He was making good progress toward Round II of the legal actions when a bullet denied the State and People justice in the matter.

Maybe instead of dismissing reliable, professionally reviewed and peer-sanctioned stats, you ought to do yourself some "edukatin" my NextRightNannie... that, or horrors of horrors, actually refrain from commenting with the BigBoys until you know what you're speaking about.

I think that makes you the fool once again?

Oh, the pesky need to get a jury to agree with you.

If the situation wasn't so sad it would be amusing that you indicate that Tiller was obviously guilty but for the niggling little detail of not being able to get a jury to go along with the allegations of the politically motivated prosecution. I believe one of the juries was out for less than 45 minutes before they came back with their decision in favor of Tiller.

 

Hypocrisy thy name is Next Right Nando

If the situation wasn't so sad it would be amusing that you indicate that Tiller was obviously guilty but for the niggling little detail of not being able to get a jury to go along with the allegations of the politically motivated prosecution.

Coming from someone who has declared Dick Cheney guilty of torture without the benefit of a trial, that is rich!

Not so. I've given you several links to cases where

our top military brass say that we should not torture and we should close Gitmo. I realize that you are still freaked out by the fact that General Petraeus and the current and at least two former Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff don't agree with you regarding our national security - however, I'm still siding with them.

What study? Stats aren't right! Kansas law forbids... no WMDs

NextRightNannie, you've had a rough, rough day. 

First you didn't even know about the Guttmacher Study on reasons why women get late term abortions. Then you didn't know about why Tiller was prosecuted.  Then you didn't understand that the shooter was on the same mission in 1986 before FoxNews or OReilly were even on the case...  you (along with Jai Ho Tied) claimed the stats were wrong only to be clearly repudiated by a peer-reviewed, professional study.

Then you didn't know that the Great Liberal Lie behind the claim "there were no WMDs in Iraq" is that there were other reasons for invading but that truth stands squarely in your way... and of course when you say no WMDs, you mean certifiable documentation in triplicate, signed personally by Saddam and verified by independent but-not-yet-corrupted UN officials... and on and on it goes.

I'm beginning to think that we can add "moving the goalposts" to your long line and litany of intellectually dishonest, troll-like tactics.

Old dawg, old tricks. old games.

 

I'll lay it out in brief sentences using only small words.

You say women get late term abortions for trivial reasons. I say that is against the law in Kansas. I say Tiller was able to keep his practice open despite the huge political pressure against him becasue his practice was dedicated to helping women who's life and health were endangered by their pregnancies. I say prosecutions were brought against Tiller but none of them went anywhere becasue there weren't any facts to support the idea that what he was doing wasn't legal and necessary. You act like a feces-throwing chimp.

Good post, Daniel

I found your post thought provoking and earnest.

Unbelievable

Unbelievable.  How could you have missed the most obvious reason: abortion is not murder. Abortion is legal.

"Pro-lifers who commit

"Pro-lifers who commit violence are in the wrong. Every pro-lifer realizes that."

I think a significant number of them see Tiller's murder as a valiant fallen soldier who is part of a larger campaign to imtimidate abortion providers and make abortion less accessible.  Frank Schaeffer got interviewed by Rachel Maddow last night and said the leaders of the Religious Right are happy about what happened because Frank had seen them happy after similar events when he was still with the RR.

The comment section here is truly horrible

This comment combines incoherency with incredible stupidity. First, Tiller's murderer (you forgot a "er" there) is not a fallen soldier, seeing as how he isn't dead yet. And what do you base that opinion on?

Frank Schaeffer's only political claim to fame is denouncing the Religious Right, which makes him pretty suspect. And given that Rachel Maddow pretty much only interviews guests who agree with her, his comments are pretty predictable.

Here

Tiller's murderer (you forgot a "er" there) is not a fallen soldier, seeing as how he isn't dead yet. 

Make that 'prisoner for God' , 'to-be-executed-for-Christ', 'martyr-forever' or some such...

And what do you base that opinion on?

In April 2007, Paul Ross Evans, who still dares to call himself "pro-life," planted a bomb containing two pounds of nails in the parking lot of the Austin (Texas) Women's Health Center. Nail-bombs are especially nasty items in the terrorist's arsenal. They kill and maim indiscriminately. If the bomb had gone off, the victims could have been anyone, patients at the clinic or passersby, doctors or toddlers. It didn't matter to Evans. In his view, what he sought to achieve rose above petty conventional morality.

Fortunately, in this case, the bomb did not explode. And today Evans is serving 40 years in the federal pen at McCreary, Kentucky. He's glorified as a prisoner for God.

These domestic terrorists didn't just get started. Since the 1970s they've burned and bombed, attacked with acid, and, of course, murdered. The pro-choice National Abortion Federation has documented more than 6000 such acts of violence or attempted acts since 1977, although some violence occurred even earlier. You can see examples here. Eight doctors, clinic workers or volunteers have been murdered, and several others have been wounded. Death threats number in the hundreds.

For obvious reasons, they are taken seriously. Many doctors who provide abortions wear bullet-proof vests. Tiller often did, although he was not wearing his yesterday morning. Not that a vest will necessarily protect a doctor who wears it all the time. As Dr. Warren Hern, a Colorado physician who has been providing abortions in Boulder since 1974, told the Los Angeles Times:

"I think [Tiller's murder is] the inevitable consequence of more than 35 years of constant antiabortion terrorism, harassment and violence," he said. "I get messages from these people saying, 'Don't bother wearing a bulletproof vest, we're going for a head shot.'"

Consequent to the murder of Dr. David Gunn in Pensacola, Florida, in March 1993, Congress passed the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act. The law banned "force, threat of force or physical obstruction" to patients and clinic workers. This helped reduce confrontations and intimidation outside clinics, where volunteers often had had to escort patients through lines of screaming, grabbing protesters. But the law hasn't stopped fanatics from continuing their violent outlawry.

Much of the media present those who are caught and convicted for their crimes as lone nuts, fringe types, the kinds of people who would be committing violence even if abortion weren't an issue. While it is undoubtedly true that some people who shoot doctors and burn clinics are, to euphemize, "unstable," those caught and convicted for their crimes collect plenty of cheers from fans of this approach to crushing reproductive freedom. They are not alone. And while they operate from the shadows, their accomplices do not.

Propagandists such as Bill O'Reilly, Randall Terry and their ilk incite these terrorists to their violence, then they deny that the intent of their bombastic verbal assaults had anything at all to do with outcomes like those that occurred in Kansas yesterday or Pensacola 16 years ago, or hundreds of other instances. Even their apologies - delivered with solemn disavowals of violence - reverberate with their true feelings in these matters.

 

...what they say now, in an effort to be politically correct, is far less important than what they said then, when they weren't nearly as circumspect about revealing their true mission: waging jihad against reproductive freedom.

 

Dr. Tiller's blood is on their hands. All their smarmy protestations of innocence will not scrub it away.

 

Jimmy, are you Meteor Blades?

Or do you just like copy & pasting other people's stuff?

Ouch, that's gotta be a put-away shot?

For a troll to be caught literally lifting someone else's intellectual product and foisting it off as their own?  Wow.

Oh wait, Lyin Joe Biden, the Democrats' new Veep did the same thing repeatedly and got away with it... why not Meteor Blades cum Jimmie?

Ouch.

Now thats just sad.

Geeze . . .