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The Issue Of Embryonic Stem Cell Research
Submitted by DebraJMSmith on Tue, 03/17/2009 - 11:45
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The Issue Of Embryonic Stem Cell Research It is not about what can or cannot be accomplished. 03/17/09 - Debra J.M. Smith - www.InformingChristians.com
The issue of embryonic stem cell research, which all too often gets lost, is that it does not matter if the entire human race could have cures for all that ails them by using these stem cells. No matter what the outcome of such research could be, it simply is barbaric to create a life in order to take that life's cells, which would have grown into that life's body parts. It is quite literally harvesting body parts from live human beings. It is harvesting because the life has to be created and taken at just the right time to pick those stem cells, before they actually turn into the baby's body parts. Click Here or go to http://www.debrajmsmith.com/embryonicstemcells.html |
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Comments
so it's okay if we create millions of babies
just to slaughter them, so that we can create ten lives? but it's not okay to save a hundred, by using these ALREADY CREATED babies?
???
It is not okay to save anyone by using that, which belongs to an unborn baby.
Define OK
Do you mean by OK that it is good not evil. Then define evil?
I define evil as senseless killing. I define cannibalism as evil.
Normally the pro choice argument is to compare killing innocent baby to the death penalty. I don't consider that evil because it is the punishment for killing of another person.
If eating somebody else's brains could improve my life, I would not kill somebody to do that, that is cannibalism. If I needed to take a living person's liver for me to continue to live I would not do so that is the same as cannibalism but done by a doctor.
Now you may say, and correctly so, that I do not need to kill somebody to get a liver and continue to live, there is an alternative - and you would be right.
The alternative to embryonic stem cells is adult stem cells. Do a google search and you will find that adult stem cells have saved lives.
The use of embryonic stem cells compares to eating a living person's brains, they don't work. Research can be done on animals, (sorry PETA), but there is no point in human experimentation with processes that don't work.
Really?
Really? They why aren't you out there on the streets, right now, demanding that ll the IVF clinics be shut down? becasue if the use of embryonic stem cells compares to eating a living person's brains, then the "storage" of left-over embryos compares to child imprisonment. Why don't you worry more about the hundreds of thousands of instances of that "outrage"???
In context
The use [destruction] of embryonic stem cells [in research by injecting them into another person] compares to [the canibalism of] eating a living person's brains.
???
Why do you seek to divert the topic, NRN? ...I am against a lot of things. So what's your point other than to divert because you cannot respond to the topic that is written on here? Or are you saying that because one evil is happening, we should sit by and allow another?
He believes it is a wedge issue.
He believes he has a wedge issue that can take appart the pro life movement. Now that I've stated I pity those that need IVF he seems to not have a place to go. Prolife organizations do not support the destruction of embryos that happens in IVF clinics.
It is the SAME topic
Why is the creation and destruction of embryos in Case B an outrage but the creation and destruction of emroys on a much larger scale in Case A is not? Until you can answer that question you cannot expect me to take you seriously.
I am sick to death of the war on reason and I am fighting back.
I've answered - You are now disingenuous
You can not continue to insist you do not have an answer because the anwser does not suit you.
You can not say you have no understanding of pity in a moral discussion and expect people to take your moral viewpoint.
So... it's ok because in one case the babies
... are being held for people who want them for NEW life, while in the other case, people want them to EXTEND life. I can see the horrible evil of the second. It's so obvious now.
It is different
Much in the same was as a person facing the death penatiy for murder.
If the case were they did not want to be married anymore so the person killed her husband ... compared to a case where A person had been abused for years, went through pain of beating, felt they had no way out, and one day broke down and killed her husband.
The difference is pity from the jury.
I think NextRightNando is right in that American people would not accept banning of IVF ... he fully understand the difference so he is being disingenuous to suggest another human being should feel outrage instead of pity.
NextRightNando is right that pro life people can not win the population over to ban IVF.
He is wrong to think prolife people do not have pity on those who need IVF.
Are Americans hipocrates because they discern a difference between first degree murder and somebody breaking down after abuse they should never of had to endure. I think not. Those who support Stem Cell Research pull on heart strings to attempt to have people pity those who are ill.
The question he should be asking is why don't I show pity to those who are ill.
The truth is there is an alternative to harvesting eggs of impoverished women; An alternative that works - Adult Stem Cells. There is no need to create life for the purpose of destruction. Thank God for this alternative, now let people know. Forgive Michelle Fox for his misunderstanding of the facts and save his life.
What's all this BS about pity?
What on earth does pity have to do with it?
Here's an idea: individual free choice. abortion, contraception, IVF, stem cell research. Let people choose.
Because, at the end of the day, you are demonstrating that while on one hand you say life is sacred and it begins at conception, you are happy to allows exceptions in protection here and there according to the dictates of YOUR conscience. So why don't you let other people to do the same.
So the issue for you is you want to choose.
Life and death have nothing to do with it.
Why is it that YOU get to draw the lines?
I have a measure of respect for the Catholic Church on this issue - they at least draw the line with clarity.
You, however, are clearly willing to mark out an ENORMOUS exception where the "life and death" of hundreds of thousands of embryos are OK, so long as young suburban marrieds end up with a baby at the end of it.
So - why should your sensibilities determine the lines that everyone else has to observe?
Your lines don't apply to you
Draw your line, Where is the line for you at what age does a childs life become something other than a object that you could take or leave and is has no more importance than your own choice.
You say what I should do, how I should feel; You say I should be outraged at this or that or that catholics are outraged at this or that.
But no you can not draw mine. No you can not draw it for Catholics and in fact Catholics have sympathy for those who can not have children as well.
but you want to draw my lines!
by illegalizing abortion. you want to sell me into servitude to an unborn babe, for immorality that I was an unwilling participant in!
... well, that's the Catholic church's position, at least according to mother teresa.
There you go with the spin.
<<The truth is there is an alternative to harvesting eggs of impoverished women; An alternative that works - Adult Stem Cells. There is no need to create life for the purpose of destruction. Thank God for this alternative, now let people know. Forgive Michelle Fox for his misunderstanding of the facts and save his life.>>
We have had science in adult stem cell for over 30 years and naturally the science in adult stem cells is further than embryonic stem cells, which has only been around 10 years. Embryonic stem cells are undifferentiated and give rise to all cells. This is an advantage. It is an advantage to learn more why embryonic stem cells do what they do.
Your idea of science is like telling an astronomer to look at half the sky. Or like telling my wife that tylenol should be banned and she should take aspirin, when she is allergic to it. Scientists have the ability to have curiosity. And with that curiosity you learn even with failures. Your only argument and the only argument has always been a religious issue against science.
Where are you going to get the Embryonic Stem Cells
The only source is from women's eggs. The amount that would be needed if a cure for anything was ever created would exceed how many eggs impoverish women could supply.
The stem cells can be
The stem cells can be replicated.
HowStuffWorks "Replicating Stem Cells in a Lab"
And beyond that, scientists learn how cells behave.
Adult stem cells - the ones that work.
n/t
Create a dozen embryos
Create a dozen embryos in the hopes of getting one to take - just as much "cannibalism" as research.
Can you point to one success of embryonic stem cells
I am not suggesting the 11 embryos that did not survive is a good thing, but an experiment with embryonic stem cells requires volume that you can see with the naked eye. You are comparing a death in a traffic accident to the holocaust.
And you are using a death caused by a traffic accident to justify mass murder. Go before a jury tell them "have you ever been in an accident? then you are just as guilty of murder as my client. therefore let my client go and kill more people."
NextRightNando, You are diverting the topic.
NextRightNando, You are diverting the topic. -- I guess you cannot comment on the topic that I posted.
Your outrage is disingenuous
Again I feel pity not outrage for those people, but you know that because I've already told you.
Where do those embryos come from?
The embryos used in embryonic stem cell research come from IVF clinics - where they would otherwise be tossed out as "medical waster".
Why aren't you out there trying to shut down fertility clinics? Afterall, there is no equivalent to Roe vs. Wade protecting IVF.
And that photo that you like to use - is that not from the FICTIONAL television show "House"??
???
Just because I speak out against creating life to kill the life for other life, does not mean that I am for freezing babies in their earlier stage of the lives. Both are wrong, and one does not justify the other. ....Do you think that picture is from the fictional television show, "House?" Well, if it is, it is very well done picture of what really took place with an unborn baby: Click Here
Why not focus on the larger problem?
Hundreds of thousands of embroys on ice in IVF clinics; a small handful of those will go to embryonic stem cell research. The rest will just stay on ice until they are destroyed. Why are you attacking the tail, not the dog?
Is it becasue your poticial masters know that opposing IVF will be an electoral disaster?
???
NRA, that simply is not the case of what people in favor of embryonic want to do. They want to create lives to take the embryonic stem cells. But I do believe that freezing lives is wrong too. And NO they should not be used either. Feel free to start a movement to end the freezing of lives. I would agree with you on that.
That picture is totally
That picture is totally inappropriate. Embryonic stem cell research has to deal with blastocycts the size of a period in a petri dish. We have over 300 in vitro clinics around the country. The embryo is destroyed periodically. Nothing was said for some 30 years, and now when we can use them for science, you get the religious right in the act. And at this very moment, I am sure they are destroying embryos. It is about finding cures for many ailments.
David A. Prentice is a shill coming on TV talking against embryonic stem cell research. This science is different from adult stem cells and we need to look at all the avenues of research. Getting stem cells from the skin or any other kind of baloney that the religious right talks about is just that, all baloney. But if you are totally against in vitro fertilization, then your starting point should be with them.
???
Such a selfish attitude, IB.
you're the one who is selfish
dooming children to lifetimes of unmitigated suffering, for your religious beliefs. I know, hans christian anderson, all that jazz, it's great to go starve little children and let them go blind. makes them holy.
Me? I'd rather concentrate on getting folks like you to adopt black babies. Can you do that one thing for me? Take five children into your house and call them your own?
When you do that, well, then I'll give you your credibility back.
The issue is embryonic stem cell research and ending it.
The issue is embryonic stem cell research and ending it. What part of that are you missing here?
Before the ban on embryonic research
Clinics were purchasing eggs from women who live in poverty. The movie Baby parts for sale names names and exposes the reality of where these eggs come from.
IVF have the option of not fertilizing more eggs than they use. Do you believe that creating a market for fertilized eggs would reduce the number of unused eggs.
If a cure for something was created using embryonic stem cells how many would be needed to actually have an impact on any illness. How many lives exist in one oz of embryonic stem cells, how many eggs exist in the population of impoverished women?
Look at the facts, the promises are impossible.
Every dollar used for embryonic stem cell research is lost from adult stem cell research, adult stem cells can and have savied lives. Don't trade truth and hope for a lie.
Why are you standing by
Why are you standing by while hundreds and thousands of "babies" are being stuck in freezers?
Better to be froozen than killed
How many people do you think can be saved by harvesting every last one that is in a freezer, 10 people? 100 people? and do you plan to ask the mom's permission who frooze them with the hope that somebody else who could not have a child would be able to.
By keeping the freezer door closed I am saving far more people than those behind the door. If there is ever a success of embronic stem cells the demand will be in the trillions of lives. I pray that there is never a success, I pray that all the research fails.
Wouldn't it be better
Wouldn't it be better to not be freezing them at all?
Just admit it: you don't want to take on the issue of IVF becasue it is popular with the GOP's one last remaining good demographic, young suburban marrieds. So you complain about the mote while ignoring the log.
Reducing the population of China would be better.
I believe poverty in places with over population is bad. Yes removing the excess population would be better. But I would not never agree to make these extra people slaves to reduce population in those areas - Let alone kill them.
What you are suggesting in other terms would be to not only take every extra person but set up a system where these locations would intentionally continue to have extra people because they can be sold to somebody else to extend their lives - the irony is that still they will not live forever.
NextRightNando: because it is popular with the GOP's
I could care less about popular. I could easily do things to move to a less controversial position and more popular one. You currently have the popularity, My choice for President lost. No it is not about popularity. I as a person know the blessing of children, and I pity those who can not have them. I am moved by my pity to be gental to these people. Extra embroys should not exist, It would be better that they are not on ice, but it would not be better to put them in a blender. Your posts suggest to me you can not understand the difference, You have said as much in many of your posts ...
How about being consistent
IVF = hundreds of thousands of embryos put on ice, to eventually be discarded as medical waste.
Embryonic stem cell research = a handful of those embroys, instead of being destroyed, are used to explore cures.
And you say that the latter is the great evil, while the former is "just one of those things".
I am consistant - not even a handful
Everything should be done to protect life.
Except for
Except for stopping yuppies from the suburbs from tossing away left-over embroyos?
I'am all for stopping yuppies from tossing away.
I want those locked behind the freezer door away from those who would kill them as well. I believe every person who is seeking IVF should be informed of what options exist; an option to not have any unused, an option to freeze them, and an option to use somebody elses. I believe those seeking them don't want any destroyed.
Note: I've not said I support IVF as it exists today, I've said I pity them.
So, informed choice for yuppies wanting IVF is a good thing.
So, informed choice for couples wanting IVF is a good thing, but informed choice for couples who do not want another baby is a bad thing.
Information on how not to conceive is a good thing.
n/t
i'm all in favor of getting the mom's permission.
embryonic stem cells are a wonderful research tool. the probability that they'll be what is used in actual procedures? dunno.
but yeah, they could save TRILLIONS of lives.
I hear some are waiting for brain cells, RT.
I hear some are waiting for brain cells, RT. ...Don't hold your breath.
???
Exactly, Wayne.
Exactly, Wayne.
Exactly, Wayne.
such passion for life! if
such passion for life!
if only the history of the right-to-life movement were so passionate about those of us carried to term we'd indeed have a marvelous society.
just imagine the right-to-lifers demanding better post-natal care for all, better schools, equal rights for minorities based on their sanctity of life.
but of course their God saves most of his love for the unborn. those perfect vessels upon which any dream can be protected. the unborn, always white and helpless, are the little angels of white women gone astray.
molotov, your comment was stupid.
molotov, your comment was stupid.