Defining Patriotism

I'm sorry, but when you define patriotism as a judeo-christian thing, you exclude those who are not judeo-christian.  Claiming that atheists, muslims, hindi, and all who hold values not rooted in judaism or christianity are unpatriotic is not very patriotic in itself.  Actually, it's just another example of bigotry.  The reason our founders demanded a separation between church and state was because they wanted a tolerant society.  So please let's not pretend your intolerant positions are somehow part of an american tradition, and let's not pretend they have anything to do with patriotism. 

To answer your final question, patriotism and Americanism are similarly offensive in that they impart a single platform to a country which is blessed, in part, by a very wide range of viewpoints and a great amount of diversity.  Why don't you take your 'core values'--which look identical to the GOP platform, if your other post is any indication--and just call them republicanism.  This would be far more accurate and far less offensive at the same time.

Hell, even "conservatism" would work if you don't want your terminology to be married to the GOP.  There's nothing wrong with being a conservative.  Just don't expect that those who aren't conservative, aren't patriotic or 'American'.

For some background, I moved here with my parents 16 years ago, a few years after the fall of the Iron Curtain. I have dual citizenship, but I consider this place my home and my country.

I love America because it was made. Other countries, like France or China or Turkey, are there because people that speak the same language occupy a geographic area, and while it took great deeds to make a nation a state, the Franks did not die out like the Vandals or Goths because of, more or less, an accident of history. The Founding Fathers, on the other hand, knew what they were doing; they were making a nation in the best way they could. Sure, they had immediate politicial and international concerns to deal with, but the USA was still their creation. And they made it so fucking well. Other colonies, in Central and South America devolved into either third-world countries, dominated by military dictatorships and aristocratic landowners, or became pale shadows of the European countries they sought to emulate. America was a place where people from all over Europe, and later from all over the world, could travel to and start a new life. The Founding Fathers had made a government and a country that was like a bookshelf, able to store the knowledge and experiences of those that came, and make it part of a new and stronger culture.

I love America because we made it, because it was as much the Scots-Irish that moved to Kentucky in the 18th century, as it was the Irish that made Boston and New York, as it was the Poles that made Chicago, as it is the Chinese, Mexicans, and Indians (dot, not feather) that move here to be the new source of drive, talent, and labor. I love America because it's a country where you become an American by making your dreams come true. If you have brown skin, many people in France and Germany will believe you can never be truly French or German, especially if you're a Muslim. In here, you can be president (and the Muslim part doesn't apply here, troll elsewhere). America really did get the good side of the deal; the smartest people in the world move here because they can be themselves, away from the oppression of governments, of taxes, or of ignorance and corruption. We are the future, and the only way we'd lose that is if another powerful nation followed basic American values more closely than we do.

Anyway, that was fun, now back to personal insults and inane blather, I think.

The point was made in a post in your other thread.

Patriotism is a sentiment that is assumed, people don't feel it necessary to invoke patriotism when debating a position.

Only conservatives do. Because if you don't agree with what they say it's not patriotism.

Every time you talk about it your trying to imply that those who think differently aren't patriots.

It's assumed by most well meaning people. They don't go around thinking people's patriotism needs to be questioned.

Paranoid bitter conservatives who got smashed through 2 straight elections think they have to suspect people's patriotism.

Pathetic.

> Does patriotism require you to actually LIKE America, what it was and what it is?
> Can a Marxist who thinks the Constitution was junk foisted on us by elite DWMs
> and wants a socialist economy/culture vastly different from what we've been be a
> 'patriot'?

Sounds like the United States is very much an ideological creation in that case, a little bit like the old Soviet Union. I.e. you could be a good Soviet "patriot" *only* if you believed in communism...
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I think love of country also involves things such as its unique cultural heritage (everything from Mark Twain to Elvis Presley....I can appreciate them while keeping in mind that each of them was of course a child of his time), the beauty of the country itself (Yellowstone, Grand Canyon et.c) or great victories won by the American government regardless of political stripe. I'd hate to see a Soviet type definition where you are considered a "patriot" only if you hold certain dogmatic unchanging views concerning the proper (=traditional) role of religion, capitalism, cultural heritage and government in American society.
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Today the public face of America is Barack Hussein Obama, son of a Kenyan (non-religious) Muslim and a white woman from Kansas. Raised in Hawaii by his maternal grandparents and politically a product of Chicago minority/inner city government. Is he Different? You bet! But so was the New Deal and so was Martin Luther King. America keeps evolving, e.g. there are fewer white judeo-christian voters than there used to be. Obama's coalition is essentially the same as the one that George McGovern tried to assemble in 1972. He lost in a landslide but the country has changed since then. To me change usually equals progress. When I say this I don't "hate" pre-1860s or pre-New Deal or pre-desegretation/civil rights America, but I still think the country is a better place than it was before.

MARCU$

FT, I count 7 references by you to our "Judeo-Christian" heritage, tradition, or whatnot.

How is it possible that you are unaware that our foundational  documents are the product of enlightenment thinking, and as such represent a rejection of "Judeo-Christian" values.

Why was America the first modern Republic? Becasue "Judeo-Christian" values said kingship was the only legitimate form of government - show me where in the "Judeo-Christian" tradition the possibility of government by "We the People" is mooted.

On the other hand, the two most disgraceful aspects of our national history - our genocidal policies toward the Native Americans, and slavery - were supported by appeals to those "Judeo-Christian values".