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Conservatives Cry 'Conspiracy' On Chrysler Closings
In my previous post I commented on the ridiculous tactics being employed by the right to smear Sonia Satomayor. There is another ridiculous attack from the right on another topic:
Evidence appears to be mounting that the Obama administration has systematically targeted for closing Chrysler dealers who contributed to Repubicans. What started earlier this week as mainly a rumbling on the Right side of the Blogosphere has gathered some steam today with revelations that among the dealers being shut down are a GOP congressman and closing of competitors to a dealership chain partly owned by former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty.
The basic issue raised here is this: How do we account for the fact millions of dollars were contributed to GOP candidates by Chrysler who are being closed by the government, but only one has been found so far that is being closed that contributed to the Obama campaign in 2008?
It seems to me that if there were really politically motivated moves than we wouldn’t be seeing any dealers who contributed to Obama being closed. This basically fits into the conspiracy theory mode which many on the far right think in. They see the result but have failed to really look at the facts, and they think that because the propose one possible theory for the results there is reason to think it is true.
Megan McArdle points out that ” Democratic and Republican dealers are unlikely to be found in the same place, and the rural counties that tend to be red are probably less profitable.”
Nate Silver actually did the leg work to look at the dealerships which were not closed and found that they were overwhelmingly owned by Republicans. If most dealerships were owned by Republicans it only makes sense that most of those which were closed would be owned by Republicans. He also points out:
It shouldn’t be any surprise, by the way, that car dealers tend to vote — and donate — Republican. They are usually male, they are usually older (you don’t own an auto dealership in your 20s), and they have obvious reasons to be pro-business, pro-tax cut, anti-green energy and anti-labor. Car dealerships need quite a bit of space and will tend to be located in suburban or rural areas. I can’t think of too many other occupations that are more natural fits for the Republican Party.
The Auto Prophet reviewed the data and came to the same finding that there was no obvious political bias in the closings, finding “Chrysler dealers (and probably all auto dealers) who donated for the 2008 election cycle overwhelmingly supported the Republicans.”
- Jai Ho Tide's blog
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Comments
LOL @ Nate Silver
having to explain to Republicans part of their own base…
In their defense, the
In their defense, the Republican base has become so small that it has to be examined under a microscope. It is understandable that Republicans don’t understand what their base is.
It would not surprise me if
It would not surprise me if Chrysler preferentially closed dealerships in Republican areas. Not because of “Obama made me do it”, though.
Chrysler is now in the hands of Congress. Congress is controlled by Democrats. Congressmen like to have economic activity in their districts. You do the math.
Chrysler will keep dealerships in Democratic Congressional districts for the same reason as military bases (and pointless airports like the John Murtha airport) appear in the districts of powerful congressmen.
Chrysler is making the transition from being a private corporation to being a Federal facility.
GM will do the same.
That is just an exercise in
That is just an exercise in creating conspiracy theories and also lacks evidence. Your conspiracy theory is even more far fetched because the closings weren’t even decided by Congress.
Closing dealerships based upon political party of the district also wouldn’t explain the accusations being made that it was Republican owners who were hit. There is probably not a good correlation between ownership and the political party dominating a district. Owners in are overwhelmingly Republican regardless of which Congressional district they are in.
Huh?
Who is conspiring with whom? I’m saying that it makes perfectly good business sense for Chrysler and GM to work to placate their new owners. And the new owners are Democrats. That’s not a conspiracy.
Similarly, I expect that the assembly plants that Chrysler and GM keep open will be in Democratic districts.
Has anyone done a correlation of closed dealerships by Congressional district?
I’m calling it a
I’m calling it a conspiracy theory because you are applying arm chair reasoning to claim something happened as opposed to looking at any facts. The decisions were not made by either Congress or by Chrysler.
The analysis I’ve seen has only been based upon ownership of specific dealerships (based upon political contributions). I haven’t seen any analysis by Congressional district. I would suspect that, independent of any political motives, there might appear to be a trend towards closing dealerships on Republican districts since they tend to be more rural and less populated.
And also out of power. Are
And also out of power.
Are you saying Chrysler did not decide what dealerships to close?
I was saying that, but it
I was saying that, but it looks like I was wrong on that part. The conservative blogs are screaming that Obama’s task force decided who would be closed (and claim it was based upon their support for Obama). I saw the evidence rejecting political bias as above, but initially didn’t question the claim that it was “Obama’s task force” which made the decisions.
Looking at some newspaper accounts this doesn’t appear to be the case:
This shows the danger in believing anything seen on a conservative blog. While there is still no evidence that they decided based upon pleasing Congressional Democrats, at least it is plausible to speculate upon what Chrysler (or at least their new owner) was thinking as they did appear to have made the decision.
That’s great news
Now, all we need is for Fiat SpA to produce their dealership selection model and data and the whole matter will be cleared up and once again the wingnuts will have egg on their faces. Since all that TARP money was given to Chrysler, simply saying that it was Fiat’s decision and then avoiding any transperancy won’t be enough to answer everybody’s questions. But I’m sure Fiat won’t mind coming forward with their selection criteria/model.
It is up to Fiat whether
It is up to Fiat whether they want to pay any attention to this nonsense and reveal more information. As they have satisfied the Treasurey Department they are not legally obligated to.
While I wouldn’t mind such transparency, it is really futile to waste time trying to satisfy the right wing nuts who spread things like this. Many of them are still claiming Obama hasn’t released his birth certificate after it was released. There are still conservatives claiming Kerry hadn’t released his military records years after it was both released on line and to the media. No matter what information Fiat gives the right will still make their claims as they have no interest in the facts when making their attacks.
Time will take care of the Fiat/Chrysler deal
Left wing rhetoric will not produce cars that sell.
And Obama can't spell CEO, much less act like one.
Probably just delaying the inevitable
Chrysler run by the unions and the government probably won't be very competitive.
I hope the guys that lost their dealerships get new ones from competitors.
I agree, this is probably
I agree, this is probably another wingnut effort to smear the Obama administration. But in the interests of transparency and good government, the Chrysler execs and/or auto task force should release their notes, agendas, leadership structure, etc., as well as the selection criteria/model for making the dealership closure decisions.
So far, I’ve heard a lot of back and forth speculation about some very limited data. Wingnuts say that almost all of the dealers to be closed are Republicans, but do not have data on the dealers to remain open as a point of comparison. Nate Silver responds that car dealers in general (not just Chrysler dealers) contributed to Republicans in the 2008 election by an 8 to 1 ratio, but that’s like comparing oranges to grapefruit: for all we know, Chrysler dealers are more evenly split between D and R compared to the total dealer “control group.” Besides, if the auto task force decided to save about 10-20 of their friends while singling out 10-20 non-friends for closure, that might not show up as statistically significant, but it would still be an abuse of government power.
It’s pretty simple, really: take the model they used, re-run the dealership performance data through that model, print the list of winners and losers, and then compare that list to the list that ultimately designated which dealers were to be closed and which were not. If there is any difference whatsoever between the two lists, then other ulterior factors must have come into play. They could even do this while maintaining confidentiality of sensitive business data by releasing the model and data to a non-partisan review board first. If everything is kosher, no need to release the information publicly.
Do we really want the Obama administration to acquire a reputation for praticing crony politics in a similar fashion as the crooked Bush administration? Nancy Pelosi promised us the most ethical Congress ever. If Democrats become just like the Republicans, how can we ever going to make meaningful long-term policy changes?
Those CRAZY wingnuts
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/05/04/chrysler-an-anti-union-backlash-in-financings/
Obama isn't out to screw anyone.
Well, it’s understandable that
Well, it’s understandable that some people think Team Obama really has their fingers in GM goings on --because they do! However, there’s no hidden agenda or conspiracy.
Edward Harrison of Credit Writedowns lays out the stakes for Obama and the Democrats in what happens to GM: the ultimate ends are political — the economics of the matter are merely the means:
In sum, while there’s no conspiracy, the stakes are so incredibly high for Team Obama and the Democrats and the scale of intervention into GM is so broad and deep now, they don’t need to hide anything they’re doing — whatever they feel they need to do, they’re going do it. The ends will justifiy the means.
It’s a hell of a gamble.
That’s the big picture and the real story -- wondering what’s really going on with dealerships is just grasping at a shard.
Jimmy -- TARP is not the
Jimmy -- TARP is not the same as the auto bailout money. Separate bushels of cash.
However, some of the lenders who have secured loans to Chrysler and also have received TARP money have reported that they are being pressured by the Treasury to forfeit their rights to payment of their loans ahead of the unsecured claims due to the UAW and to the Feds.
One interesting issue arising from this proposed distortion of standard bankruptcy practice is that lenders will be really reluctant to lend money to other companies that might need Federal buyout.
Monique, my bad, sorry I got
Monique, my bad, sorry I got the auto bailout money mixed up with the TARP money - thanks for the clarification.
My point is that the feds gave Chrysler a lot of taxpayer money, without which Fiat probably never agrees to take responsibility for the company. As of now, Fiat is not the owner, I think it’s actually a UAW health insurance entity. Now, Fiat might have told Chrysler/UAW/Treasury that we wanted to see certain dealers pared before the purchase, but it’s not actually their “decision” until they own the company. In the meantime, the taxpayer money must be answered for, can’t just blame it on Fiat. Otherwise, you have billions of taxpayer money spent, a dubius bankruptcy process, and no transperancy.
Are the Democrats going to become crony capitalists just like the Republicans? If so, what’s the point? Chris above seems to be suggesting that anything goes - anything that it takes to win in 2010 and 2012.
Are the Democrats going to
The short answer is probably -- yes!
It’s not really that team Obama is going to do anything to “win” in the usual connotation of that word. Think of it as them suddenly finding themselves on a tightrope much longer than they thought, up much, Much, MUCH higher than they thought -- and there’s no safety net. There’s only two outcomes: getting to the other side -- or falling. Just getting to the other side is “winning.”
crony unionism
The Obama administration and the Democratic Congress are setting up a form of crony capitalism. Or crony unionism.
A lot of the massive Federal spending on borrowed money in the “stimulus” package is not going to stimulus (i.e. short term, quick outlay, terminating) spending, but to set up long-term new Federal programs that will increase the number of unionized workers and especially government workers -- Obama’s core political base and a major backbone of the Democratic Party.
You can also see this with the government efforts to put the unsecured claims of the UAW ahead of the secured claims of bondholders in the cases of GM and Chrysler.
There is a tremendous
There is a tremendous difference between the institutionalized crony capitalism of the Republican Party and Obama’s response, whether right or wrong, to a crisis situation.
Something similar happened
Something similar happened under Bush’s watch with the Wells Fargo takeover of Wachovia. Right before the takeover, Wachovia received a bunch of TARP money, making them even more attractive to Wells Fargo (in this case, it turns out that Wachovia was actually financially stable all along, which made this deal even sweeter). Again, no transperancy, crony capitalism. Now is it okay if Democrats do the same thing? No, that’s why it is essential that we have accountability and transparency - and not hide behond European skirts and elude all responsibilty - otherwise, we’re all just suckers.
well...
The “dealergate” story you link to is alleging favoritism for a couple specific Obama supporting dealers and thus is not rebutted by general statistical analysis.
The idea that a couple of specific people got preferential treatment based on political connections doesn’t seem unreasonable or even unlikely. Even if RLJ-McLarty-Landers did not ask for any special treatment and even if the government was not involved at all do you really think Chrysler is going to look at closing the dealerships of the head of BET and a well connected Obama campaigner the same way they look at closing some average Joe’s car lot? Nothing is proved but suspicision in this particular case hardly seems unreasonable.
In fact the Megan McArdle article you link to acknowledge’s this, saying ” I would be less surprised to find out that the administration rescued specific donors from the hit list than to find that they deliberately closed Republican dealerships.“ Your own reference is raising the same issue as the Doug Ross Journal you linked to as an example of conservative paranoia and lack of analysis: special treatment for RLJ-McLarty-Landers.
As for the general argument of the widespread use of political criteria in the closings, or the targeting of Republican dealerships, that seems unlikely as is acknowledged by conservative blog sites like Just One Minute and Hot Air.
Bob, Statistical analysis
Bob,
Statistical analysis does not totally debunk this story but as the claims are purely based upon bogus statistical analysis on the part of the right, this does pretty much eliminate it. The burden of proof is on those making the charges. Their “proof” came down to statistical analysis but when the data is looked at rationally it does not prove what is claimed. All we have now are accusations with zero evidence against Obama.