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Health Care Reform: Who do you trust?
Paul Krugman makes some legitimate points about why the market for health care is very inefficient. Greg Mankiw makes a more compelling argument, summing up the central dispute between Left and Right over health care.
Perhaps a lot of the disagreement over healthcare reform, and maybe other policy issues as well, stems from the fundamental question of what kind of institutions a person trusts. Some people are naturally skeptical of profit-seeking firms; others are naturally skeptical of government. ... I tend to distrust power unchecked by competition. This makes me particularly suspicious of federal policies that take a strong role in directing private decisions. I am much more willing to have state and local governments exercise power in a variety of ways than for the federal government to undertake similar actions. ... Most private organizations have some competitors, and this fact makes me more comfortable interacting with them. If Harvard is a bad employer, I can move to Princeton or Yale, and this knowledge keeps Harvard in line. To be sure, we need a government-run court system to enforce contracts, prevent fraud, and preserve honest competition. But it is fundamentally competition among private organizations that I trust. ... A central question in this and perhaps other debates is, Whom do you trust?
Even now, nearly 50% of health care spending is done by government, and the other 50% is sharply regulated and burdened by government-imposed barriers. There is little doubt that our health care system is inefficient, full of perverse incentives and in need of reform. However, the central fear of the Right is that a greater government role will have the same results it has everywhere else: inefficient spending (Defense), corporate welfare (Agriculture), regulatory capture (Commerce), theater (Homeland Security), interest group pandering (Education), Do-Gooderism (Justice), and so forth and so on.
Those problems do not have to be written into the legislation. There is plenty of precedent to the idea that politicians have perverse incentives, and government does not do benign interference. Government is a monopolist.


Comments
How much control do you want government to have on your life?
Folks like Obama and Krugman think it should have quite a lot. And they aren't concerned. Because they think they are going to always control the government.
If they considered what a single payer system would mean in the hands of Sarah Palin, Tom Coburn and Sgt. Crowley; methinks they'd suddenly become born-again libertarians.
Mankiw's Example
It would be a good one if it even came close to describing the health care system. Instead, if you are a typical, insured American, you cannot just "go to princeton or yale" and nothing "keeps harvard in line." Your employer chooses your coverage and you can't change a thing without quitting your job and people don't become frustrated with their health care until they're sick and find that their provider won't cover treatment. At that point you can forget about other coverage.
This is insane and one way or another this country needs to evaluate health care - including the status quo - by three principles that were raised by Von at ObWi: 1) How many does it cover 2) how are most people covered and 3) cost. Right now we have the greatest number of inunsured, the most ridiculous mechanism for securing insurance and the most expensive health care in the developed world. This hurts people who don't directly see what they pay for insurance because it comes off the top of their salary it hurts people who try to buy insurance privately because they can't negotiate the rates employers can and hurts the work force market because workers are reluctant to leave their provider/job.
The basic economics are straightforward but every time I listen to a Republican Congressperson debate this on the merits I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Mankiw's example doesn't represent the current system.
He's describing his ideal system. IIRC, he's on record calling the status quo the "Company Store" model.
Indeed, then please explain
Indeed, then please explain how our government's handling of health care outperforms private industries handling of health care by a HUGE margin. Medicare/caid outperform private insurers in every category, and they cover EVERYONE within their prescribed market while doing so, unlike private insurers.
Because it doesn't
For example, let's consider their costs are rising much faster than private insurers, and their "lower administrative costs' are a product of: a) lack of attentiveness to preventing unnecessary expenses (it costs money to do audits) and: b) much higher per patient spending.
Now that's for Medicare and Medicaid, whichare doing so well even Obama says they need to cut costs. As for the state level measures to invoke "universal health care" please identify one (Romneycare, TennCare, Oregon, Maine's Dirigo plan, Hawaii's child insurance) that worked as planned?
Exactly!
When you figure in the waste, fraud and abuse into the administrative costs of government plans you see how they really compare to private plans.
Back it up
I don't suppose either of you two could back up these claims you are making with some data? Something that wasn't bought and paid for by the insurnce industry? Medicare takes on the most sickly people in the country and works extremely well in spite of that fact - in large part due to the fact that they don't pay people to find ways to deny coverage, and they don't spend billions on advertising and bonuses for management.
Here's a glimpse of how a private insurer operates:
I've absolutely had it with these guys - they deserve a massive kick up the backside.
Recissions can only happen if you lie on your health application
Otherwise you can take them to court and win. Should we make it legal to lie on health care applications?
Insurance cos. are annoying bureaucracies, but you just have to know your contract and fight through the co. rep. etc. and in my experience you can always prevail. More competition is the solution, not a govt monopoly where there is no place to go to fight their final decision.
A letter from the insurance company to the former insured
Dear Former Customer:
Thank you for the over $25,000 in premiums you have paid to us over the years. However, now that you have had a heart attack, we are rescinding your policy. Of course, we realize that this comes at absolutely the worst possible time, because now that you urgently need medical care you will not be able to get a policy from any other insurer. However, if you have any money left over after you have sold your house to pay for your quadrupole bypass, you are welcome to take use to court. (Assuming, that is, you survive the operation after all the added delay and stress that our decision causes you.) We have a staff of over 1,000 lawyers standing by ready and eager to meet with whichever lawyer you can afford.
Sincerely,
Your Former Insurance Company
Obviously the press or your AG can get involved...
if time is of the essense. They have before. There are bad actors in every aspect of life, at least w/ private enterprise you have back ups and the press to help.
If it were all the govt you wouldn't have that in socialized medicine people routinely wait longer for care causing higher cancer and heart related death rates.
It sounds so easy when you say it like that...
Hospital: Mr. Smith, you urgently need a follow-up operation to fix life-threatening complications from your first operation. However, your insurer is refusing to reimburse us for the first one, and we can't schedule the second one until we know we will be paid.
Mr. Smith: OMG, I don't want to die, I've got a wife and three young children and I am the sole breadwinner for the family! What can I do?
Hospital: It is your responsiblity to bring extraordinary pressure to bear on your insurer to get them to do their job. We suggest you ask the state attorney general to drop everything that he is doing and intervene in your case, even though this matter is almost certainly outside his remit. Alternatively, you can organize a press campaign. But you'll have to work hard at it, because there are so many of these "death by spreadsheet" stories out there that most journalists are quite blase about the whole thing.
Mr. Smith: OK, I'm on it. How much time do I have?
Hospital: We'd say you've got a good 24 hours before you bleed to death internally. Good luck, let us know how you fare!
Mrs. Smith: OMG, how completely fucked up is our system?
Hospital: In socialized medicine people routinely wait longer for care causing higher cancer and heart related death rates.
Mrs. Smith: Can you prove that? It doesn't make any sense. Life expectancy in the United States is significantly lower than in Canda, France, Australia and even Spain, which are all countries that have socialized health care systems.
Hospital: Ermhh... well....you see, I heard from a friend who knows a guy whose cousin lived in England for a year, and he said....
Mr. Smith: I give up. Just unplug me now and lets get it over with, OK?
It's illegal to deny life-saving care, and you won't get recised
if you don't lie on your health insurance application. You are inventing problems that don't happen. If this type of thing happened it would be on every news channel every night. Anything that would put Obamacare in a good light, we would hear about.
Wow, Ironman and Ann_W!
That's simply complete B.S. It ignores every single shred of verifiable and statistically valid evidence available! Did Rush tell you to say that load of crap?
They have no idea how much fraud is in the system...
see http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMp0904854 But everytime they look for it, they find lots of it.
Those of you whose kneejerk reaction is to trust the government to take care of all our needs and run things efficiently must live in an alternate reality to mine. Every interaction I have with a government entity is anything but efficient and comforting.
Healthcare under SARAH PALIN???
..The woman who plunged her city, Wasilla, into unprecedented debt by funding a brand-new, SUPER expensive "Sports Center"?
Sarah Palin, who now has to answer an ethics complaint trying to find out just how much of the work and materials for her brand-new home on the lake the winning bidder supplied free of charge?
Yes, I think if I found out that the Healthcare system was now in the hands of Sarah Palin and Rev Dr. Coburn, I would have to become "Born Again", just so that I could have a more direct line to Jesus.
Because if I got sick, that would probably be my only recourse.
Distortions
Medicare/Medicaid REIMBURSE HMO's and Doctors. They are simply the same as any other insurance policy, with their own sets of limits, controls and regulations.
The other 50% of health care spending is under similar constraints depending on the fee-for-service, and varies wildly across the country, from private-care fees charged by unregulated, boutique clinics to bare-bones accident-only policies from tiny insurers that have $5,000 co-pays, to the "Cadillac" style policies that cover everything, access all doctors, specialists, and services, and do it with no co-pays or limits for a corresponding Cadillac-size premium.
The key to this, of course, is that there is NO FREE MARKET for the vast majority of Americans! HMO's have consolidated and merged and acquired each other so that nowadays there are only a handful, maybe five, behemoth, monolithic HMO's that look, act, collude, and charge like monopolies and cartels.
And unless the marketplace is opened once again to competition, there can be no entrepreneurshiop, no competition, no possible way to reduce costs.
Who do I trust? The cartel that has been screwing me repeatedly for the past thirty years, or Obama?
That's an easy one.
You're right market power has been concentrated way too much.
This is largely due to the way the govt has structured insurance tax-exemptions for businesses. People need to be able to shop for their own specialized plan, w/ their own dollars; forming co-ops etc. through private organizations. This would bring down costs.
It's kind of silly to trust the govt who has been screwing us all for more than thirty years, though. Medicare costs 10 times what they told us it would cost at this point when they enacted the legislation.
Medicare "Costs"
...Are rising BECAUSE of the Health Cartels.
Not because of Medicare's overhead or cost factors.
Medicare, as has been posted right above, is one of the most efficient insurance plans out there. Doctors and HMO's and labs may grumble and cry about the low fee schedules, but they get paid on time and in full for services rendered. For every MD or lab that turns away Medicare business, there are plenty that are glad to have it.
My Mother and her friends use Empire's HMO Blue, a Medicare Supplement that extends her access to EVERY MD, Specialist, and Lab that accepts Empire Blue Cross, which is like 99% of the providers out there. Her cost? ZERO. Without Medicare, a comparable policy for an 80-year old with vascular problems, if she could even get it underwritten, would probably cost thousands every month.
Medicare works. Millions of Americans KNOW it works, and if we extend Medicare-like benefits as an option to every American, it will still work. And it will work better, not worse. And the Cartels who are funding millions of media dollars DAILY to kill the President's plan will hate it just like they hate Medicare.
Medicare is not efficient
There are just no gov't grants avail. to study how much is lost to fraud and abuse so we don't know exactly how much there is. Heck, there isn't even much gov't money to try to keep fraud to a minimum. Again, see http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMp0904854 .
Do you not know that it does cost thousands to cover your mother? Just because it costs $0 to her doesn't mean that expense is not out there. Our country has decided to cover health care for seniors so that will be covered regardless. People are just hoping for a competitive structure to offer efficiency and to get the most for the money spent.
When Obama's argument for govt intervention in healthcare is that costs are increasing, yet his plan adds 1.2 trillion to overall costs and does nothing to address the increasing costs, that's ridiculous to even consider.
Fraud and Abuse
..are part of EVERY plan, whether it's Medicare or Cigna. But it's not a HUUUGE part of Medicare, like you make it sound.
If you would read the very same link you posted, it says
Which sounds like about the same loss factor Macy's and Wal-Mart have every year to fraud, theft, and abuse.
Is your argument we should do away with MEDICARE?? If so, please continue. I can guarantee you no GOP or any politician in his right mind would try and follow your suggestion.
As to your 1.2 Trillion to "overall costs", that number is BOGUS. The final version of the plan has not yet been released, and the President has already said the costs will be minimal in the long term, and we are in for FAR greater expenses if we do nothing to control costs as the GOP is suggesting.
Hell, even using YOUR bogus figures, 1.2 Trillion is over TEN YEARS, 120B per year. About what the war in Iraq is costing us, and if I know you, you would probably spend all that money in Iraq in a heartbeat, but would never think of using the very same dollars to reform healthcare and help your fellow Americans live healthier lives.
You want to talk MASSIVE fraud and abuse? Try the Defense industry and the Pentagon.
Only estimates avail. put Medi fraud at much ^ %'s than that.
And they don't even know what level it is actually at, because they don't care to know. Why spend money on preventing fraud when you can just keep spending more and more to the point that the populace thinks they need to be saved from the high health care costs by the govt who has let the costs spiral out of anyone's expectations?
Yes, the Defense dept is another govt entity plagued w/ fraud and abuse due to lack of competition and political connections. We need to work on that. Are you suggesting we stop defending our country?
And, no, I'm not suggesting that we stop providing Medicare, that's permanent. Ironically, though, your mother's plan that you were raving about may be one where they private companies to increase competition and improve services. I'm not old enough to be too familiar w/ how Medicare is run, but it sounds like it is a company and that your mom likes it. That's all I'm talking about-- truly transparent options for people to make choices from always make the overall service better. (Think of computer cos. and restaurants, etc.)
sound arguments
Krugman bases his argument on economic theory and historical experience. Mankiw may be right, but his argument is based only on his personal feelings and an oversimplified 'I don't trust government' sound bite version of conservative philosophy. Conservatives really need to do better than this.
Ann_W
Your analysis of your very own "supporting" data, in addition to the real data that's available widely, is absolutely absurd. "Walking contradiction" doesn't even begin to describe the weakness of your completely bogus argument. Pathetic.
Not exactly sure what you're talking about...
I do have the best public education money can buy. But if you mean that I'm implying that fraud occurs even though they don't care to look for it, that's kind of one of those life lessons-- poorly monitored systems have people take advantage of them. Any time that they have looked for fraud they have found a lot of it. Estimates of fraud in Medicaid are 10%, when you talk about a program that size, that's a lot of taxpayer dollars going to waste.
What I actually think is pathetic is people who have access to all the historical evidence to the contrary and keep insisting that governement control can provide a better economy and services to its citizens than competive enterprises voluntarily trading with each other and citizens. That is truly pathetic, if we insist on labeling.
Had to come back to refute leftist talking points with facts!
Health care has been politicized such that many are convinced that the disease — misaligned social, market, and regulatory structures — can be cured by treating the symptom — high costs. When people speak of the need for “health care reform,” what they usually mean is “cheaper” and “government-run.” This is akin to treating lung cancer with cough medicine on the advice of Phillip Morris.
One quick test to evaluate whether with whom you are speaking has any clue about reforming the U.S. health care system is to evaluate their arguments. If they use any variation of the following myths, they have no idea what they’re talking about:
1. The U.S. spends twice as much per capita on health care yet our system is ranked 38th in outcomes. In reality, disparities in commonly cited nonspecific health outcomes — infant mortality, lifespan, etc. — have less to do with the health care system or how it is financed than the cultural, demographic, and genetic characteristics of the population it serves and the way the statistics are defined, collected, and reported. For example, when adjusted for violent crime and accidents, the U.S. life expectancy is actually the highest in the world.
2. Medicare’s administrative costs are only 2% compared to 20% in the private insurance market (a.k.a. "The Big Lie"). This myth of government efficiency — an oxymoron — that perpetuates a false confidence in federally-imposed health care long since have been debunked.
What the Medicare overhead calculation obscures is how efficient any insurer could appear if it only offered one product for one market segment in which everyone was mandated to buy it; which was prepaid and collected by someone else under penalty of law; reimbursed only 80% of a provider’s cost; did not have to survive solely on premia, investments, or make a profit; did not have to obey the various state regulations, but instead set its own rules; could not be sued; and much of its overhead functions, debt, and debt service were absorbed by its competitors and various other federal and state agencies. That is Medicare; and despite these advantages, this system is bankrupt, and has been mismanaged to the tune of trillions in unfunded liabilities! In actuality, the cost-shifting of Medicare and Medicaid to private payers is 2½ times that due to the uninsured! Yet this is the system that is being held out as the model for the U.S. system of the future.
This doesn't even count the waste, fraud, and abuse, and lack of client services such as medication therapy management, formulary management, outcome scorecards, etc.
3. Markets don’t work in health care. On the contrary, market-based solutions work well in health care. The reasons are competition, price transparency, and consumerism. One example is conventional Lasik surgery where the price has decreased 30%+ in real terms with high satisfaction. Another example is medical tourism whereby mostly private providers in other countries offer medical procedures in accredited facilities at lower cost with equal or better outcomes. Because of this, many U.S. health insurance companies have or are considering programs to cover medical care abroad. Even the competition aspects of Medicare Part D have brought down premiums one-third from expected.
The way to think of health care systems is like cars. Those that want government-run health care are trying to advance the argument: “Why does a Mercedes E-350 cost so much more than a VW Beetle? They’re both cars!” This would almost be a reasonable argument if a Beetle health care system was acceptable to consumers, politicians, and trial lawyers in the U.S.
Health care reform is a cultural and political problem more than a medical or economic one. In Canada and Europe, they are getting a no frills Beetle that gets you from A to B 90% of the time. That’s why their systems are cheaper, but that wouldn’t fly here. The American culture expects (or has been conditioned to demand) the best possible care (decreasing benefit) as soon as possible (increasing cost) paid by someone else (employer or government) and sues if the outcome isn’t acceptable (defensive medicine).
All health care systems ration care; but the results of rationing—more inconvenience, worse outcomes, and less choices–employed in more socialized systems would not stand in the U.S. Managed care cut costs well in the mid-1990’s. Real growth in per capita health care spending was cut in half with equivalent quality. However, politicians to this day decry the rationing practices that made it possible–gatekeepers, denials, and limited choices–yet hail as exemplary the more socialized systems for which these same practices are critical. If they were too problematic and impersonal for American culture then; what makes them agreeable now? If all we want is cheaper, the health care expectations of Americans (and trial lawyers) will need to change; but if we want better, it’s government policies that need to change.
Most government-run health care financing schemes in social democracies function because the citizens accept long wait times, high taxes, and the foregoing of marginally better but more expensive treatments as part of their social contract. Canada’s socialized health care financing system (insurance is a misnomer) is a point of pride; whereas, the U.K.’s true socialized system–government-run everything–is openly derided. Canada has two significant advantages, however: those that choose not to accept prolonged waits for timely access to commonly available care can come to the States relatively easily; and it also can free ride off of our pharmaceutical and biomedical R&D and military. The latter is what allows the E.U. systems, both health care and economic, to function at all.
True health care reform is being inhibited by trying to force the square pegs of government and politics through the round holes of culture and economics. In order to fit, the corners will need to be carved by eliminating the general deadweight loss from government pass-throughs and redundant state and federal regulations along with tort reform. This would decrease the compliance costs and allow standardization, which would free up capital for health information technology and its efficiencies without assaulting the American culture.
Two good first steps would be to allow health insurance to be bought and sold across state lines and tax equity for individuals who buy nonemployer-base covergage. A third would be to set up an evidence-based “loser-pays” tort system for medical products and services. These reforms alone would decrease costs and free up the necessary resources (i.e. capital) for real system reform. Likewise, portability, competition, and consumerism would be promoted. The ultimate results would be lower costs for businesses, lower premiums for all, a decrease in the uninsured, and a higher-quality, cost-effective health care system.
Now that’s reform.