Reform the Republican political culture

Armed Liberal has comments that those on the Right (and Republicans) need to read and understand.  I'll quote it at length, because it (particularly the bolded parts) is basically correct...and very important.  (Via Andrew Sullivan)

The GOP's problem is twofold. First, we just concluded a period of history in which the GOP ran everything. And they did it really badly. They were corrupt and incompetent. They led us into an unnecessary and costly war; they got themselves embroiled in an endless string of scandals; and they presided over an epic economic collapse. People remember all those things very vividly and it has badly damaged the Republican brand.

But that's only half of the GOP's problem. The reason the Republican Party continues to bleed members has much more to do with the general attitude of the party's political and intellectual leaders than anything else. Rather than admit to any mistakes or take even the slightest bit of responsibility for the state of the country, they insist on blaming everyone but themselves. [...] They watch TV and they see a very intelligent, charismatic President who says a lot of very reasonable sounding things and exudes competence. And then they see a bunch of angry conservatives and Republicans who insist that that same man is some sort of evil communist who's going to destroy the country. In other words, the problem is not the ideas, but the attitude. Republicans are coming across as a bunch of obnoxious, unreasonable a-holes. When you've just been voted out of power for manifest incompetence and your opponents are led by a very popular and reasonable-sounding person, you don't have the luxury of acting smug and uncompromising all the time. You have to acknowledge error and show some humility. You have to act civilly. You have to at least try to appear pragmatic and reasonable. But the GOP is not interested in doing any of these things. Those who are left in the party are ultra-partisan and utterly convinced of their own infallibility and moral righteousness. Until they lose that attitude and general combativeness, it won't matter what their ideas are. They'll just keep turning people off.

I keep making this point, and I'm not seeing much evidence that Republicans are really taking this seriously: The first priority for the Right cannot be defeating the Democrats.  The first priority for the Right must be reforming the Republican Party. 

That requires some very serious, substantive contrition for the mistakes they've made. 

  • It requires Republican politicians to unilaterally embrace reforms within the GOP, without regard to how Democrats behave. 
  • It requires Republicans to plant a flag on ethics, transparency, honesty and tone - to define higher standards and consequences, and to call out other Republicans who do not live up to appropriate standards.
  • It requires the Right to do some serious re-evaluation of the entrenched movement, infrastructure and interest groups we have accumulated.  The leaders of the movement have to accept some responsibility for the condition we are in.

The Republican brand does not merely need a little tinkering.  The Republican brand is not the victim of Democratic rhetoric and framing.  The Republican brand is so bad because people accurately perceive the state of the Republican Party.  

Rhetorical contrition and promises are insufficient.  Fixing that problem requires actual, painful, reform.

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Comments

I miss the old GOP

I miss that GOP that stood for true economic conservatism, and ran folks who believed that smaller, more efficient government was the way to go.  Granted, I did not agree with some of the beliefs under that big tent, but I certainly respected them.  I listened to them, too, and sometimes (gasp) even learned from them.

The current GOP is not the GOP of my father's age.  President Reagan brought with him those economic conservative values.  Sadly, he reached the presidency by aligning himself with the social conservatives/christianists, such as the Moral Majority (HA!).  And it is those social conservatives/christianists who have thrown the anchor overboard in the attempt to keep the GOP fixed on THEIR interests, not the country's.  Anybody who falls outside of their narrow view of the world, as seen through their skewed and filtered view of their bible, is excluded  And, sadly again, the blowhards of right-wing media have no desire to change their ways or what they say since their current babbling seems to draw the listeners.

The GOP needs, well, just what Mr. Henke has written.  The Dems took a chance with their rebuilding (Thank you, Howard Dean), and it worked.  Your turn.

Hear, hear!!

I'm amused by all the talk of recapturing the golden days of Reagan, when it will take a lot of work now just to get back to the party's standing in Nixon's day.  At least he ran the government competently.  Watergate seems almost quaint by today's standards  but Republicans of his day were willing to deal with that scandal and be part of the solution.  Think about the comparison with how the GOP has responded to the mess left by the last eight years.  -- today it's nothing but deny, deny, deny.

Get talk radio out of the

Get talk radio out of the republican party together with socons,that s the way forward.

First priority for the Right? Reform the GOP? LOL!

Jon, you've not only jumped the shark with this post, you've lost it completely.

There's good reasoning in why one doesn't listen to the opposition for advice -they don't have your best interests at heart in any way shape or form and their advice will certainly, unequivocally be tainted and should be suspect by anyone serious about the future of the GOP.

You ought to know that basic truth about politics.  The problem isn't that "people accurately perceive the state" of GOP... it's that the GOP has been misled, far too quiet and civil in taking on its strongest critics and that role has been either outsourced or highjacked by media-talk show celebs like RushBlow, Coulter et al... rather than being done by the RNC Chair... or the GOP leadership in the House and Senate or a college of GOP State Chairs speaking as some new board of directors of the newGOP... like Clinton did with his farLeft Party and the Democrat Leadership Conference in the 1980s.

I get the part about sincere, honest contritions by GOP leaders that they went wrong here, there and over there too.  Americans will forgive just about anything (eg, Carter or Clinton or Nixon).  But at some point the call for contrition needs to end (I think this past fall was long enough, thank you very much) and you need to stop schlepping for the opposition --or, in the least, playing into their hands.

Because the only place they want their hands to be is on the neck of the GOP, squeezing tightly.  You might see that grip as something like "holding on for dear life"... I see it for what it is, an attempt to kill the GOP.  ArmedLiberal doesn't have the insight needed to steer through a cowpie encrusted field, much less tell GOPers what's wrong & what's right.

For you not to grasp that is a fundamental defect in your political acumen.  You should know better and strive to do better.  We don't fellow GOPers playing into the hands of our opponents, for Christ's sake.

BTW, I'm still waiting for TomDelay to do the contrition thing... maybe admit he screwed the GOP into the ground -not just in Texas & Oklahoma, but in the US as well.  But I ain't holding my breath.

as a leftist

I find your reaction reassuring. But as an American, I really want to have a functioning oppostion party and think we are not served by having total domination in every way by the Democrats. So here's some advice for you and all Republicans that you'll probably dismiss as concern trolling in your self-righteous a-holish way. But here goes anyway. What your party has forgotten is this:

PLURALISM

The deal always has been, we don't force our personal beliefs down your throat, cuz we don't want your beliefs forced down ours. As soon as you politicize your religious beliefs, you threaten everyone's freedom of religion including your own.

So stop trying to work out your salvation in a political party. That's NOT where you do it!!! You are ruining the whole idea of American values. It's unAmerican and stupid. Just like your party.

 

"...we don't force our personal beliefs down your throat,..."

HAHAHAHAHAHA! 

Really?  Tell that to the parents of the Alameda school district.  Tell that to the bond holders of Chrysler.  Tell that to college freshmen forced to listen to politically correct school authorities. Tell that to the 2nd Amendment supporters, everytime Barbara Boxer and Pelosi talk about the AWB. 

I get your point.  Actually its very valid.  But the conservatives in the GOP are fighting defense, not offense.  The conservative viewpoint has been on defense for decades.  And except for gun rights, the conservative base has lost the culture war in spades.  Why is the left always so scared about the religous right? Whay are YOU so hostile?  YOUR SIDE WON.   Abortion on demand, gay marriage is gaining acceptance, sex is all over the media, Porn is free speech but religion is restricted, socialism is on the rise, the Constitutional knowledge base of the citizenry is diminished so much that Obama's policies are applauded.

Your idea that religious beliefs are being politicized is amusing.  I'm assuming that you are writing about abortion and gay marriage.  One, abortion is the ending of a life.  Two, marriage is a bedrock of the human race and civilization. Changing that on a whim is dangerous.  Most laws and political decisions are based on values.  This culture war is about whose values are we going to use. 

So, since you are such an believer in pluralism, I assume you will now ask your party to cease and desist from forcing your culture down OUR throats.  Oh, and I don't think that you would recognize American values if they bit you on your intolerant butt.

 

whatever!

you are just apart of that blame the GOP first crowd!

nothing is ever our fault!

 

 

/sarcasm.

No more white washing

Rhetorical contrition and promises are insufficient.  Fixing that problem requires actual, painful, reform.

Reformation, that gives this Lutheran some food for thought!

You are right, the GOP isn't going to fix the problem by slapping a white wash on the tent.

how's about posting some principles

on the door to the US Congress? ;-)

Local doors

Actually thinking it might have greater effect if we did that with the local offices of party members.

do it when they aren't in washington.

yeah, might get some good press too ;-)

plus, I'd love to see whatcha come up with...

mischief is fun!

I aim to misbehave!!!

they'll swing back to the belief that they can make people . . . better. And I do not hold to that. So no more running. I aim to misbehave. ~ Captain Malcom Reynolds

Indeed.

"America wasn't founded so that we could all be better.  America was founded so that we could all be anything we damn well pleased."  - P.J. O'Rourke 

I don't need someone who can "sound reasonable" telling me what to do with my life, and I'm not trying to do the same to anyone else.  But when the government starts telling me that I'm not thinking the right way, or that they know better than I do how to spend my money or raise my children or live my life, you better believe that's when I start being "uncompromising." 

Push Back

When the government starts telling you that I'm not thinking the right way, or that they know better than you do how to spend your money or raise your children or live your life, it's time to start pushing back!

I think that's what we're starting to see with the Tea Party movement.  Pushing back.  And it's not just Democrats pushing down on the people.

Been to two of 'em already

And I agree, it's not just the Dems by any means - there are plenty of folks within the GOP who need to go, many of them at the top of the party.  But that should be the extent of our "apology," kicking the bums out of our own party.  Apologizing to those who are compounding our mistakes is ridiculous.

I'll take that, and gladly!

Cheney first, mind. ;-)

Can you explain this a little

Can you explain this a little better:

Apologizing to those who are compounding our mistakes is ridiculous.

I don't believe that Jon is implying that Republicans should be apologizing to the Democrats.

No, Jon's not

But the tenor of the original piece that he highlighted was that the GOP's problem is a lack of compromise and humility in the face of the Democrats, as if we should humble ourselves before them, admit we were wrong, and hope they can forgive us.  I have no problem with the "leaders" in the GOP taking that approach with conservative voters, indeed, I think they owe us a big apology, but to do so for the Dems would be a mistake.

Demographics.

Check out http://people-press.org/report/242/beyond-red-vs-blue

and tell me who you want in your party. you won't be able to get everyone, but you can get some people.

and then you'll know just whom to be apologizing to, and what message you want to take.

I want anyone in the party who wants to be in the party

I hate the idea of our leaders pandering.  The GOP should brand itself (and walk the walk) as the party of individual freedom, of smaller government, of decreased spending and lower taxes and of state's rights.  If I had my way.  And if that sounds good to you, then join the party. 

If that doesn't sound good to you, then vote for the other guy and live with the consquences.  I fear that the majority in this country (and around the world) will choose the other guy, the one who "sounds reasonable" but who's idea of good government is to get as many people as possible directly dependent on the government.

And it's probably unrealistic, given the current state of our electorate, but pandering and promising has gotten the GOP (and the Dems and our country) where it currently is.  We need to stop pandering and stop apologizing and start acting.  Tell people this is what the GOP is going to do, and then do it.  If people like it, they'll get behind it.  If not, they'll go elsewhere.  But constantly trying to redefine or appeal to different groups is a recipe for disaster.

A couple points

1. MichelleBachman recently got confused over "global currency" vs. "global reserve currency", a mistake that her opponents drove a truck through. Why didn't any national leaders notice that and suggest right at the start that she starts using the correct phrase in order to avoid in effect helping BHO? Maybe reviewing what happened there could be a useful learning experience.

2. Considering the extent to which the GOP is controlled by those who profit from illegal immigration, isn't it going to be extremely difficult for the GOP to maintain high ethical standards? Don't most top and low-level GOP leaders more or less support helping companies profit from illegal activity?

Two Answers

1.  I don't think her complaints would have happened had she realized the difference between the two.

2.  Yes to all points.  The GOP like illegal immigration because of low wages.  The Democrats favor open borders on idealogical grounds.   Strict, closed borders are not popular in either party.

It's no wonder...

...the only comments you ever see on here are from the left, when you've got posts like this one.  The solution to the GOP's problems is to play nice and be contrite and admit our mistakes?  Is this a joke?  I'm sure if we did that the left and the Democrats and the media would gladly accept our apologies and welcome us back into the debate with open arms, right?  I'm sure they wouldn't take our apologies and use them against us for the next twenty years as evidence of our failures.

I'll be damned if I'm going to apologize for anything just because the liberals elected someone who "sounds reasonable."  And while we're acting civily and being reasonable, Obama and Pelosi and Co. will just ram their agenda where the sun don't shine.  They're going to do it anyway, whether we're civil or not.  Why the hell should we make it easy on them?

We can adjust our attitudes all we want, it's not going to make a difference when the media isn't going to portray us as anything but lunatic nutjobs anyway.  Yes, we need a drastic change in leadership, but that's an internal thing.  There's no way in hell I'm going to apologize or play nice or compromise with the Dems while we're cleaning our own house.  One thing has nothing to do with the other.

if anyone is still talking about bush in 20 years

they will be rightfully derided as stuck in the past.

However, a full repudiation of the Bush Administration is called for. Along with plans outlining how you will prevent such numbskulls from taking over your party again.

When a man messes up,

He admits it. That is why you apologize for something. It doesn't matter if the other guys have Ho Chi Minh or Winston Churchill in office, if your party made mistakes while governing, you should admit them and apologize. And guess what? Are you scared of apologizing and seeing the Dems "use them against us for the next twenty years"? That's going to happen, anyway! You don't get past unpleasant events in the past by pretending they didn't happen.

If anything, Obama's popularity and (gulp) prestige raises the bar for Republican behavior. If you had Daley/Tweed instead of Obama/Biden, then Republicans would look good without changing a thing. But right now, Republicans are offering their 2008 platform, which didn't serve them well the last time.

What I'd like to see is the GOP saying "we were wrong about X and Y, and we have a new plan Z" instead of wanting to rename the Dems as the "Democrat Socialist Party". For leading the most powerful country in the world, I expect better.

Yes, I am scared

of seeing the Dems using our apologies against us for the next 20 years.  If we do so, the only soundbites we'll see during election cycles are of Republicans admitting they screwed up and apologizing for failures.  The GOP leadership can apologize all they want to the right, but they should not be apologizing to the left.  To do so will be played as an admittance that the left is correct, that their policies are correct, that everything they've been saying about the right is correct.  We can't afford to give them that ammunition. 

And when was the last time you heard the Dems apologizing for anything?  They've screwed up to no end, at yet they took control of the entire government solely through blaming Bush and attacking the GOP.  They didn't offer a single apology for past failures or a single realistic idea.  And no, free universal healthcare is not realistic.  And government reform is not happening.  The Dems won by lying and casting blame. 

I'd be more than happy to see the GOP return to core principles and actually mean it, small government, lower taxes, more freedom.  And I'd be happy to sweep the old deadwood out of the party, which would be apology enough for me.  Forcing those who screwed up into early retirement is an admission of failure.  But compromising or apologizing to the Dems for anything is not part of that plan.

who's been talking about free health care?

I've been talking about revenue positive health care, but that's based on the 5-6% of gdp that we'd get back, from reducing duplication of effort (and the countless millions spent on Murder by Spreadsheet).

Our dear leader and the rest of the Dems.

Who are the only people who count.  I must have been sick that day that the Democrats agreed to implement your health care proposal.

GOP

Charles, thats why your party will stay in the wilderness, they won't budge on anything.

Wrong audience

The GOP has to apologize to Republicans of all stripes, right, center, moderate, pragmatic, and Independents.

Aim it directly at the people, not the media, and certainly not the Democrats.

Admit mistakes to the people

Who ever said the GOP had to apologize to dems? You have to admit your mistakes to the people.

Stop trying to defend the sunken ship which was the Bush administration and admit gross errors were made to the people. Then you can move on. But as long as conservative leaders are going to defend the Bush years, the dems are going to keep hitting them over the head with it.

I see two distinctly different issues.

First, is going forward from where things are today. Bush did not make great economic accomplishments while he was President.

The second is a correct history. He worked with the congress that he had; the budgets he got were not financially conservative etc.

The problem is we can not go forward by looking back, it is to easy to take many conservatives from looking at now, back into the days of Bush and what Bush did and did not do. Conservatives that fall for this bate lose, yes lose! They are fighting an already lost battle and people stop listening. Name calling would work as well. History belongs as history yes it should be correct but it should not be today.

If you must reference Bush while talking about today do it in compairison. Yes, Bush spent too much money; Today the spending is different, we are not in an active war. More people believe that it is a waste of money to build an airport that nobody will use than believed it was a waste of money to invade Afghanistan. Today having spent too much money for 8 years we can not afford to waste money at higher rates. The name for somebody who believes it was wrong to spend money like a drunken sailer in 2006 but not wrong to spend money like a meth addict would be "liar."

Still Regan would make a better "hero" than Bush, because he did make economic accomplishments - although he did not cut spending.

Republican Culture is just fine

What a bunch of "reformist Baloney".
Conservative Principles win......Culture critique of Republicans sounds like Liberal Baloney. Especially coming from Sullivan. Everyone and his MSNBC cousin is attacking Sarah Palin....our moose huntin Mama who believes in Guns, family, life, and fighting corruption. She has "culture" and so does Miss California . . . .Gay did not get us to where we are today....Guns, Family, and demanding enforcement of the Constitution got America to the Present day.
"Un-necessary and Costly Iraq War ?".
I'll tell you what is Un-necessary and costly beyond Imagination....
$ 3,400,000,000,000 dollar federal Budget......Any Republican gonna vote for this ? ? No ? Then our Republican Culture is fine.

dude

Thats exactly the attitude that will keep you in the minority for years. The country has changed, conservatives like you keep thinking were back in the 50's. Times change, hardline conservatives don't. Your loss.

Great post, 4speed.

I enjoyed it very much. Thank you.

ex animo

davidfarrar

reform will be painfull

Well what we need is painfull reform,right now the republican party is full of coalitions from immigration restrictionists,limited government,isolationists,pro-choice,pro-life among many other groups competing party power. My solution is kick all other all groups out of the party and remain with only the limited government people,otherwise the ship wil go from listing to sinking.

The left's analysis will necessarily be flawed

There is undoubtedly a good bit of truth in that analysis, but it is also colored by certain liberal assumptions that we can ill afford to make.  For instance, the author makes no distinction whatsoever between perception of reasonableness and actual policy.  In politics perception is said to be reality, but this is much more so in the Democratic party than the Republican.  The reasons for that have to do with the different manner in which the two parties capture votes (and it almost goes without saying, the difference in how media covers the parties). So it's no surprise that the entire analysis by our liberal friend was one of perceptions.  Republicans "act smug," but really just need to "show humility."  This is not even close to a comprehensive view of the Republican problem.

Republicans, unlike democrats, win by adhering to a cohesive and comprehensive ideology, specifically that of small government and individual responsibility.  It is not enough for our politicians to merely sound reasonable, they must actually represent this ideology.  The problem which the author fails to identify is that, while Obama sounds reasonable and exudes competence, he has in fact demonstrated neither reasonableness nor competence.  His agenda is almost universally unreasonable, and the needed return to republican principle requires it to be opposed.  Anything less than that would be both unreasonable and disenginuous.  That kind of political hypocracy works in the democratic party because they are a collection of interest groups.  So long as each gets their payday, they are help.  It won't fly in the republican party.  It may take them a while, but republican voters eventually demand actual principles from their representative. Principled opposition to a radical big government agenda is the way out of the wilderness, not an attempt to play nice just to appear 'reasonable.'

Great analysis yourself, bgarst.

It has taken over thirty years for fiscal conservatives to tire of the choices that inevitably confront us at election time by the Republican primary process: Vote for the Rockefeller Republican or vote for the liberal Democrat. Enough is enough. We have finally learned, as many more are presently learning, the only way to re-empower fiscal conservatism within our political system is to take the third option: don't vote for either and allow the natural democratic learning process to take its course. Sure, it might be painful and expensive, but in the long run, it's a better option than our present course. Let the learning begin.

ex animo

davidfarrar

Is the Republican party really monolithic?

 I have to question your premise that the Republican party is a monolith, while the Democrats are "a collection of interest groups."  To me, the Republican party also seems to be a collection of very distinct interest groups.  Specifically, I count four main groups: small-government libertarians (government should be limited under all circumstances), social conservatives (the government is responsible for preserving the morality of the American people and should have power to regulate accordingly), fiscal conservatives (government should deregulate businesses, but can have power in other arenas), and those concerned with national security (defense is our nation and government's highest priority, the American military should be the strongest and the best in the world, and should be proactively seeking to defend us by being involved all over the world).  

These groups can exist relatively peacefully under some circumstances: for example, fiscal conservatives are often willing to back social conservatives on abortion policy.  However, there are plenty of ideological fault lines in this union that make forming a cohesive group difficult.  Libertarians, for example, despise the idea of the government being charged with the regulation of morality on purely ideological grounds: while a libertarian may find abortion reprehensible, it is the individual's job to make that determination, not the government's.  Similarly, fiscal conservatives may disagree with the taxation that is required to fund a large and technologically advanced military.

This is not to say that the party needs to splinter into four separate minority parties, but it does suggest that the right does need to be able to satisfy different perspectives just to maintain the coalition that is currently willing to ally with the Republican party.  

wrong

Quit harking on the bs that conservatives are pricipled and Democrats are not. No the gop isn't morally superior to Democrats. Do you think your party has a monopoly on values? Stop with the analogy that Democrats are wild eyed hippies, out of touch with "American values". We worship God and install good values in our children just like you. Get off the smug wagon and open your eyes.

Indies and mods find Obama reasonable

Obama seems unreasonable only to conservatives. But independents find him utterly reasonable.

Conservatives find the last 8 years more reasonable that what Obama's proposing. That's why the GOP is in the wilderness.

You can't win without gaining a substantial portion of the indy vote. Convservative pols are turning of indies big time. Moving even farther right won't rectify the situation.

Not to rain on your parade

But small government principles, by themselves, won't win elections...sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  That's why the GOP aligned with social conservatives to get them 50% plus 1.  Average Joe Voter doesn't give two hoots about "small-government principles", because Average Joe Voter really doesn't pay attention that much and frankly doesn't care.  Average Joe Voter though can tell when the party in power screws up and votes for the other party.  That, however, is dependent on ACTUAL screw-ups.  Not dire warnings of future problems.  Nobody has won an election yet on the insolvency of Social Security and nobody will....nobody cares enough.

It would be like liberals running on the EFCA.  People, by and large, don't care enough about the issue.  For the most part, it's not enough to get you voted into office and not enough to get you voted out.

Spoken like a true...

...Democrat, thirdeblue. I stand in awe of your candor.

ex animo

davidfarrar

Speaking of the average Joe...

I assume everyone's heard the news about Joe the Plumber from Time:

Samuel Wurzelbacher, better known as Joe the Plumber, tells TIME he's so outraged by GOP overspending, he's quitting the party — and he's the bull's-eye of its target audience. But he also said he wouldn't support any cuts in defense, Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid — which, along with debt payments, would put more than two-thirds of the budget off limits.

Now, I'm cynical enough to question that he really much gives a hoot about GOP overspending.  If we know Joe (and Lord knows, we know way too much), this development is as likely motivated by learning his local GOP isn't inclined to support his political aspirations as anything to do with GOP overspending.  If a local third-party has shown more receptivity to his ambitions, Joe has enough entrepreneurial spirit to bid a quick adieu to the party that made him an icon.

But what intrigued me was his list of items where he would not support cuts, in light of both his statement about GOP overspending and the GOP's unquestioned belief that most Americans want limited government, and will support the budget cuts to achieve it. 

Defense is pretty much everybody's sacred cow, left or right.  It's been drummed into all of us and accepted as gospel by every pol that anything less than unquestioning support for a defense budget of any size or growth is mandatory to 'support the troops' and therefore to prove one's patriotism.  So I'll give Joe a pass on that one because it's understandable he doesn't want to begin his political career by committing politicial suicide.

But look at the rest of his list.  All of them are socialist entitlement programs.  Two of them are publicly-funded health care programs.  If Joe is the 'everyman' the GOP claimed he is, how do you square his priorities with the idea that most voters won't support socialist programs or public health care?  Or, conversely, would support huge cuts in these programs in the name of limited government?

LOL

Two words: Dick Cheney

Every time this charner opens his mouth, it's a down payment on anothe rten years of Democratic control in DC. As long as this man is alive, defining the right as the party of hate and torture, you have no chance. None.

WAY TO GO, DICK!!!!!!!!!! LUV YA, BUDDY!!!!!!!!!!

Cheney is a Good Guy, only Un-popular with the MSM and friends

You probably think Obermann is a Prophet.   I'd love to have Dick Cheney on my side in a War, or as CEO of my Company. 

Lets hear a specific, Truthful, docuented description of "Why you hate Dick Cheney ?"   You don't list any Reasons for someone to join you on the "Hate Cheney" side of tthings.

Forget you Hate him just because he was a CEO.......and you hate Oil companies....ever had a Congressman Fill up your Gas Tank ?   Nope ?   It must have been EXXON then.

 

i don't hate dick cheney... though, pardon, he is a bit of a

dick. And a coward. And, quite frankly, he's more used to "who you know" than "what you know"

These are the reasons why you couldn't pay me a million to put him in charge of a company that I control. He'd lose me 10 million within the first month!

If you actually put Cheney as CEO of a NYSE company, I'd short it.

Of course, you all headed in

Of course, you all headed in the right direction this week by stroking out over what the president had on his hamburger.

What a bunch of pathetic buffoons.

 

Apologize and then show you actually mean it!

Long time lurker, 1st time commenter.

It is not good for this country to have only one credible party.  But you still don't have a clue. 

NewsFlash:  YOU GUYS WRECKED THE WORLD!

Everybody else is pretty damned pissed off about it and are not going to get over it anytime soon.  The R party and conservatism have been undeniably decredited and repudiated. 

Apologize?  Not even close

If the Rs and the right want to regain to some credibility and begin the long road back to some semblance of relevance, leadership (fat chance) should be groveling in sackcloth and ashes and in front LOUDLY calling for investigations and prosecutions of Bush / Cheney et al.

Where are the honorable conservatives?  Where are the Howard Bakers?

Real conservatives like Barry Goldwater would be derided as a "liberal" by the current R party and would be utterly appalled by you.

So, I'm not holding my breath.

Republicans

I listened to Mark Davis fill in for Rush yesterday, he was smug, a know it all, self-righteous and arrogant. The gop has been crushed in the last 2 elections and they continue to be mean sprited and angry all the time. Thats turning people off. Anyone who critiques them is thrown under the bus. i.e. Colin Powell. If the party's leaders think going further to the right is the way to go, they are sadly mistaken. The gop is in a death spiral, the party has been hijacked by Limbaugh and Hanitty. Glen Beck is a loon and conservatives think "tea parties" will be the salvation. Better wake up soon gop, or your party will go the way of the Whigs.