The FY2010 Budget and Tea Party Tax Revolt: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

The following is taken from both press releases and video of the GOP Reaction to Peter Orszag's briefing on the White House FY2010 Budget by Paul Ryan (R-WI), House Budget Committee Ranking Republican, and Judd Gregg (R-NH), Senate Budget Committee Ranking Republican.

Paul Ryan: "In his Tuesday address to Congress, President Obama gave an eloquent commitment to addressing today’s greatest challenges: the ongoing financial crisis, mounting job losses, unrelenting health care costs, and an unsustainable path of Federal spending and looming entitlement crisis.

"The President’s opportunity to fulfill his rhetoric came today – in his first budget submission to Congress. Regrettably, the reality of the President’s budget falls far short of his inspiring words; it is simply a continuation of the misguided notion that America can spend, tax, and borrow its way to prosperity.

"Despite his call for ‘fiscally responsibility,’ the President’s budget promotes an ever larger, more expensive Federal Government as the first , and seemingly only, answer to our nation’s problems.

"When you take a look at this budget, it's a spend, tax, and borrow our way into prosperity budget. It proposes bigger government with higher spending, higher taxes and higher debt as a means to produce more prosperity in America.

"My favorite movie of all time is a Clint Eastwood/Sergio Leone classic: The Good, The Bad and the Ugly. And I believe that it's important that if good things are being done, highlight those. So we broke this budget down into the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

The Good:

  • Acknowledgement of the entitlement crisis (no solution provided yet, but at least it's been acknowledged)
  • Budgets for AMT fix
  • Means-Test Medicare Part D Premiums

The Bad:

  • Increases '09 spending to $3.9 Trillion
  • Increases non-defense appropriations by 9.3% (raising total percentage of deficit to GDP to 27%, which is huge)
  • War funding gimmick - disingenuously includes amount spent on Iraq War at its 2008 height during the surge and subtracts the difference between this amount and the amount spent when we draw down troops from Iraq, calling this difference a "savings".

The Ugly:

  • $1.4 Trillion Tax Increase in a Recession
  • $1 Trillion Entitlement expansion
  • 2009 Deficit of $1.9 Trillion
  • Doubles the national debt

"If there's anything that economists on the Left and the Right agree on, that supply siders, Keynesians and classic economists can agree on, you don't raise taxes in a recession. This budget is raising taxes in a recession. This budget is going to have a $1.4 Trillion tax increase. Tax increases on small businesses, on investment that creates jobs, tax increases that are going to hurt states that are cold states where we have to pay for heating our homes, and states that have a lot of manufacturing. It will put us at a huge disadvantage against our foreign competitors.

"The deficit this year goes to $1.8 Trillion alone. This doubles the debt within 8 years. And so if you take a look at all of these numbers and you include the taxes that are going to hit families and all the new spending on health care, let's recognize one thing and Senator Gregg said it very well. We already spend 2.5 times per person on health care spending versus all other industrialized countries. Can't we spend what we're spending now more effectively, why do we have to spend all this additional money? Let me put it a different way. We're already projected to spend $4.5 Trillion on health care spending for people under the ages of 65.

"I would argue that if we reformed our health care system to put patients and doctors in control of their health care, bring the market back into health care, we could have universal accessibility to health care coverage. Instead, we're going down the path of having the government run health care, of having us raise taxes, borrow more money and spend even more money on top of this to do this. We could work together on Social Security and get that fixed. We could take that as a trust-building, confidence-building exercise and move into the health care areas, but we've got to check ideology at the door. If it's a plan to nationalize the health system then we're not going to want to participate in that. We had a nice talk on Monday, but it's got to follow with action and there's not much action on that in this budget.

"I want to work with the President in a bipartisan way to move this country forward. We want to have bipartisanship, but that requires collaboration. But in good conscience, we can't work with the other side if they insist on dramatically growing government, on dramatically increasing taxes, and dramatically borrowing more money because that will give our kids in the next generation a dramatically more expensive government, much higher taxes and an inferior standard of living. And that, I fear, is the trajectory which we are on. This puts on the path to much bigger government permanently and that's not the right direction." Judd Gregg: "He's Clint Eastwood, I'm Eli Wallach."

[Asked by a reporter about creating another financial rescue package for the financial system] "I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that one. We're in such a difficult fiscal situation that if they come to us and make a legitimate case that in order to stabilize this economy and specifically the financial sector, and they need more TARP dollars or whatever they want to put the new title on it as, I'm certainly going to be listening. And that's a reflection of my willingness to be bipartisan and recognize that we're in a pretty rough sea and we all need to be in the boat rowing towards shore and the initiatives to stabilize the financial industry have to be done in a bipartisan way.

"On the issue of financial stability, until they've probably completed the stress test exercise of going through the major banking system and deciding where the capital needs are, and what sort of reconstruction has resulted from the initial efforts here, and as the TALF [Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility, an effort to expand lending to US consumers] money kicks in which will relieve, significantly I believe, some of the pressure on the financial industry, they're not going to know [how much the total health care spending will entail aside from the $636 Billion down payment].

"On the issue of health care, it looks to me like they're talking over $1 Trillion, the $636 Billion is really what they could figure out to answer how they're going to cover it, they're really talking over $1 Trillion or more. "There are procedurally some good decisions here from a standpoint of technical budgeting actions. They've taken steps which were appropriate such as not including AMT revenues when we know we're not going to get them, and then we end up spending them; such as the doctor's fix, accounting for that; such as scoring the war. So those are good things to do and I think that reflects the fact that Peter Orszag is down there and and he's an honest and fair broker of what the baseline should be relative to numbers.

"On the other side, though, when we get to substance I have some very severe reservations about where this budget is taking us and the issue really comes down to this: where is the restraint in spending? You know this budget doubles the debt of the Federal Government in five year, triples the debt of the Federal Government in ten years, runs up obviously massive deficits over this period and never really gets us back to a point where we're on a glide path toward getting control over the costs that we're passing on to the next generation - the costs that our children and our grandchildren are going to have to pay to operate the government.

"The problem with this is that it's done in the context of not addressing the true fiscal problems that have as a country which is the looming fiscal tsunami of the Baby Boom generation retiring and the entitlement costs that they're going to incur and the fact that we're going to end up passing on to our children a government that they can't afford and a nation that won't be as strong as we were given by our parents. There are massive tax increases in this bill, in this proposal, $1.4 Trillion by our calculation, that's a BIG number. Massive new spending in this bill, just in the health care area $1.4 Trillion.

"The representation that the deficit is being cut in half in four years is a nice representation but it's really not the heavy lifting that's needed here. In fact, if you go to the current. In fact if you go to the current law baseline, the deficit would go to $140-150 Billion in the fifth year. So actually just under current law, the deficit would end up being dramatically less than where they're going, which is to a $500 Billion + deficit in the fifth year. That number is very, very large, obviously, but more disturbing is the fact that it goes on forever. "

Itemized Deductions Raise Small Business Taxes by 5-6% and Will Affect More Layoffs.

In response to a question about a panel under President Bush which looked at reducing itemized deductions, and which were roundly rejected by Congress under Bush, Judd Gregg had this to say: "I hope they will be rejected, but you've got to remember that the President's panel, which was co-chaired by Senator Mack, was doing a comprehensive reform and they basically suggested that a lot of deductions be eliminated in exchange for a significant rate cut. Rate cut! This has the practical effective of being a major rate increase. Not only are they taking the top rate from 35% to 39%, then with this language relative to the deductibility of itemized deductions, you're essentially kicking it up well over 40%, probably 41$, we haven't scored it yet. But you're basically taking the top rate up in the 40% range. Now who does that affect? Most people say somebody else is paying that, I don't really care. It's basically small business people in this country who pay that type of rate because they are sole proprietorships or they're Subchapter S corporations so if you have a restaurant or a small software company that's growing, or you have a garage, or you're got an automobile dealership, or you're a realtor, you're a sole proprietor and you're getting hit now with a tax rate that's going to jump from 35% to 41%. Where do you pay for that? You lay people off, you don't hire people or you don't expand. I think it's extremely dampening on the economy to have that kind of tax increase, especially in a recession.

Paul Ryan added, "70% of the jobs in this country on average come from small business. The majority of people who file at that top rate are those small businesses. And we're saying that in this recession we're going to raise taxes on the engine of economic growth and job creation in America? That's what's so galling about this budget: the notion that you raise taxes on the people most likely to create jobs in a recession. It just boggles our mind that they would actually try and pursue this type of an economic agenda at this particular time. We understand that they want higher taxes but we know one thing always works the wrong way. Raising taxes in a recession causes job loss and prolongs recessions."

Carbon Taxes Will Not Be Paid By Corporate America

Judd Gregg: "Remember there's another tax increase in here. This will affect average Americans because it will mean less economic activity as Congressman Ryan has pointed out. You've got a tax on people's electric bills in here. This carbon tax isn't going to be paid by Corporate America, it's going to be passed to the consumer. And so everybody to gets an electric bill in this country who happens to be in a region which has coal-fired plants or other plants which are subject to the carbon limitation tax, are going to be paying a big tax on their energy bills. If you're going to do that for the sake of addressing global climate change because you want to reduce emissions, that should be immediately returned to the taxpayers, dollar for dollar. That carbon tax should go directly back to help support the people who are paying their electric bills. It shouldn't be used to expand government willy-nilly on somebody's special project, and that's the way it's structured here. They're taking the tax and expanding government. That's wrong."

Paul Ryan: "On the whole cap and trade thing, we are not giving 95% of the people a tax cut when we're raising their energy prices. We're going to say it's going to cost you more because of government to heat your home, to put gas in your car, to take your kids to school, to manufacture things. And so when you take a look at the Make Work Pay Credit, that's about $13 a week. We're going to be raising, dramatically, energy prices for consumers - for families, for manufacturers, for small businesses, for the elderly - and I think it's going to cost more than $13 a week that they're going to get in a rebate. "

Who Cares About Taxes That Won't Take Place Until 2011?

Paul Ryan: "We're telling small businesses around America 'if you're thinking of investing, if you're thinking of hiring, if you want to get out of this recession just know this: your taxes are going to go up.' Businesses don't turn around on a dime, they plan for the future. They think about what's the after-tax rate of return on capital, what's my investment horizon look like? So we're saying to businesses, your money's going to cost more, we're going to have higher taxes on pensions, higher taxes on 401K's, because we're going to tax the equities that go into those things. And we're going to say that every new small business, every small business out there that is hoping to hang on in this recession, if we get out of this recession we're going to hit you with higher taxes. That's going to hurt investment, that's going to hurt job creation.

Where Will We Be at the End of Obama's First Term?

Judd Gregg: "Of course it depends on the economy, obviously, and a recovery occurring. I happen to believe personally, myself, that if we were to step forward jointly as a Congress in a bipartisan way and take on some of the big issues - let's start with Social Security because we know how to solve it, and put in place a plan that solves Social Security and makes it fiscally solvent for the next 50 years, and follow that with something substantive in the area of Medicare. That if we did those two things, and did them jointly, in a bipartisan way, we would create a massive amount of confidence in the American people in in the world community which is buying our debt and stabilizing our currency in our economy, and we would see a much faster economic recovery. But neither of those issues are taken on in this proposal and it's regrettable because the opportunity is there. And until we address this looming fiscal tsunami, and I'm sorry to keep using the term but that's what it is, it's just going to wipe out our children's chances of having a successful future. We aren't going to be able to say that we're going to be able to stabilize the Federal Government. It's just going to grow dramatically to the point where it can't be afforded any more. "

Paul Ryan: "I completely agree with that. The most frustrating thing about this budget is the fact that it's a missed opportunity to work in a bipartisan way to fix the entitlement crisis. If we all got together and fixed the fiscal crisis, the entitlement crisis, imagine the confidence that would bring to the markets, imagine the confidence that would bring to our currency, and to the future projection of our economy. I think you could probably come up with a good argument that the inflation assumptions and the economic growth assumptions in this are a little more rosy than the blue chip consensus forecast. We're going to look more into that but I think you ought to look at the inflation numbers here, you ought to look at the GDP forecast, they're off from the blue chips. If the blue chips are right and if this forecast is wrong, then the budget's going to look much worse than they're projecting."

Can the President Pay for His Policies By Raising Taxes?

Paul Ryan: "Pay for what? We still have a huge deficit at the end of the window. The Congressional Budget Office January Baseline shows that the baseline deficit on its own goes down by three-quarters. So claiming credit for cutting the deficit in half over four years is kind of the equivalent of standing outside at 5:30 in the morning and claiming credit for the sun that's about to rise."

Judd Gregg: "No, it's worse than that. We're taking four steps back in the deficit fight and then taking only two steps forward. Whereas if we were to stay on the basic course we're on we would take three steps forward. If you're quadrupling the budget deficit and then you cut it in half, you're not getting very far. In fairness, a lot of this deficit that they're getting this year is a function of an economy that's in a difficult, difficult situation so I've not said that the deficit that they're getting this year is an outrageous event. The issue is, five years out why aren't we doing something more constructive about this, why aren't we getting our hands around this? Instead, five years out we're exploding tax burden, we're exploding costs. "

Paul Ryan: "If we did nothing the deficit would drop faster than it is in this budget. They're simply presiding over the baseline. They're inflating the baseline with this war cost gimmick and a baseline that has higher taxes and higher spending. Saying that you're cutting the deficit in half over four years sounds fiscally conservative but when you actually look at the math it's fiscally irresponsible." Judd Gregg: "One of the areas I think we could do something on but it's clearly not going to occur under the budget as proposed is budget enforcement mechanisms. Interestingly enough if we went back to the statutory PayGo that they're talking about that has sequester, this budget would be subject to $5.4 Trillion of sequester. " Paul Ryan: "But what's interesting is they're shoving all this money into the baseline and then turning on PayGo. It's like commit all these fiscal crimes, and then after these crimes have been committed, then outlaw the crimes afterwards - and that's exactly what's happening here with respect to PayGo."

How Would Republicans Address Energy Policy, Education and Health Care?

Judd Gregg: "There are a lot of ways to do that, and I guess that's where our philosophical differences lie. On the issue of energy, we drill more in the United States, create more incentives for production. At the price of oil today there's tremendous incentive for production and I think it could be quite profitable as long as you allow people to pursue it. The problem is that we're not allowed to drill in the places where there's energy in this country. It's sort of unfortunate. Build nuclear plants. They're quite cost-effective and they're clean, but there's a disincentive to build a nuclear plant in this country. "In the area of health care, there are a lot of different things you can do that don't necessarily involve increase in the cost. When you're spending 17.5% of GDP on health care, which is about 6% more than the closest industrialized country, you've got a lot of money in the system and that money should be allocated in a more efficient way which is why I hope they're successful on this initiative which would try to do that. "We funded education in a pretty robust way from a Federal level, and I think you're going to find it's going to be difficult for the Education Department to spend all the money they've got right now."

Paul Ryan: "We will bring a full budget alternative to the floor when it's scheduled for the floor time. So just stay tuned and we will tell you what we believe in and how we would do things differently."

The Seeds of Economic Unrest are Planted... er... Astroturfed?

We can see that fiscal conservatives have valid reasons for concern, anger, even outrage - as explained articulately by Senator Gregg and Congressman Ryan (watch the C-SPAN video here). We're witnessing classic tensions between the haves and want-to-haves such as labor and management, Main Street middle class and Wall Street fat cats, water carriers such as credit borrowers who "played by the rules" and water drinkers who "borrowed more than knew they could afford". The lines are being drawn in the sand of Main Street little people vs. Wall Street fat cats, company owners and managers vs. workers, big government rescue vs. self-determination. I'm reminded of this quote from former GE management innovator Lemuel R. Boulware:

Companies don’t provide job security - customers do. 

In a market-driven society, no matter how much government intervenes to force recovery through economic engineering such as taxation, regulation, wage and price controls, and social engineering such as persuasion and intimidation to comply with their new world order, it won't succeed unless people sincerely want to buy what government is selling. Lately it appears that some newly skeptical "customers" are experiencing Buyer's Remorse for their pro-Obama votes.

American citizens have a right to expect that our investment in government should be managed competently, diligently and wisely. We are rightly suspicious, skeptical and potentially outraged by endless high deficits and taxes in spite of Peter Orszag's best efforts to be an "honest and fair broker".

This month in a Playboy.com article titled Is Rick Santelli High on Koch, authors Mark Ames and Yasha Levin of the website Exiled Online, a sort of nihilist Ace of Spades HQ (with apologies to Ace of course), express their sincere belief that they have exposed the tentacles of a libertarian oligarchy (which seems oxymoronic, but it's their term not mine) ostensibly engaged in duping a tiny handful of ignorant real people (mixed with well-compensated Hollywood extras and/or student interns at the Ayn Rand Institute?) posing as tax revolt protestors into astroturfed faux grassroots Tea Party events launched by Rick Santelli's rant sponsored by evil Koch corporate overlords.

Levine writes in his related article titled Astroturf Revolution Dispatch: Koch Activists Teabag Media:

...if you read the Santelli article [at Playboy.com], you know these tea party protests were never about attracting real supporters. They were about creating the perception that these supporters exist.

Apparently Levine and Ames haven't completed their exhaustive research yet to indict Michelle Malkin for her fake tea party photo album, or World Net Daily's false list of national tea parties, or all the trumped-up YouTube videos such as this one of the poseur libertarian Republican community organizers of the Seattle Tea Party (probably filmed in the same back lot as the Moon Landing...

Let's just say for a moment that the Koch family, Cato Institute and the Sam Adams Alliance are helping to sponsor these protests by contributing funding, training, networking and technology resources. In that case, I concur with Mister Mxyzptlk's pithy comment on the Astroturf Revolution Dispatch's monument to Yasha Levine's stealth infiltration of the Santa Monica Tea Party:

...do you not get the idea of “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander”? For eight years the PR machine funded by big money Democrats has created well timed and carefully planned events to protest the actions of the Bush Regime. Now the right is using those techniques against the Obama Regime and it’s your side that’s whining about it. That’s how the game is played. Get over it.

Another Boulware quote that seems appropriate:

We have simply got to learn, and preach, and practice what’s the good alternative to socialism. And we have to interpret this to a majority of adults in a way that is understandable and credible and attractive.

Tea, anyone?

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Comments

Pick your battles

This one is beyond a done deal. Budgets can't be filibustered. So the GOP would have to peel away 9 votes in the Senate to make any substantial changes. Coming off a huge stimulus victory and a hugely succcessful speech there is no way more than 2 or 3 Senators will oppose a hugely popular president. I doubt any will.

The President would have four years to make sure Rahmbo got proper payback on any defectors. He has not yet unleashed the outrage of his army of internet troops, and no Democrat wants to be first in line for that barage. And the GOP is feeling pretty damn whipped from the stimulus battle which left their approval numbers in the toilet.

Of course, none of that will stop Rush, Hannity, and the wingnuts in the House from making plenty of negative press. Not only will the Dems not want to be associated with those nutburgers, I doubt the Maine ladies will either. So that means you have to peel away 11 votes. Good luck.

LoL, that "hugely successful speech" was all over the map

Matt Welch says it far better than I can regarding the successful speech in his article titled The Two Faces of Barack Obama:  A President Contradicts Himself All Night Long.  One cannot watch an Obama speech and see these contradictions without a healthy dose of skepticism, so naturally the devoted loyalists will continue experiencing unbridled joy at the stellar pacing, tonality, modality and showmanship of riding on the great crowd's emotion.  But when George Stephanopoulos, David Gregory, Jim Lehrer, Gwen Ifil, Charlie Rose, Bill Moyers, the entire CNBC staff (excluding Kudlow and Santelli who never drank that Kool-Aid anyway), et al begin seriously questioning the sanity of this budget, I'm tellin' ya, there's Buyer's Remorse out there for this product.

Warren Buffet's response has suddenly pivoted toward a measured defense of the Bush/Paulson/Bernanke strategy, and is now totally noncommittal toward the Obama team strategy which seems to focus heavily on lurching toward Babylon.  Bloomberg is backing Giuliani for Governor of New York, an interesting pivot back toward the more fiscally conservative Republicans.  Nouriel Roubini and even Jack Krugman both feel that the so-called Obama New Deal Keynesians have made two egregious errors:  (1) not stimulating the economy in a bold enough manner, and not shoring up the banking system where possible by eliminating zombie banks in an orderly fashion and enforcing strict pricing rules to force the sale of toxic assets.  In an interview on Charlie Rose last week, Krugman said that Geithner and company are "thrashing around, unsure of what they're doing and not doing enough quickly enough". 

Also for clarification, this post isn't geared toward picking a legislative battle in 2009. It's geared toward illustrating what a deep hole the nation is actually in, and will continue to be in, unless two things happen.  First, we need a fiscally conservative Congress including both Democrats and Republicans who respect that core value.  Heads must roll in 2010 and 2012.  Second, Republicans need to find real leadership for the executive branch in 2012.  That last part seems to be the greatest challenge.  Heaven knows we can't have Rush Limbaugh running for President, since he's made it clear that he's already posted his name in God's office.  

we finally, finally have the opportunity for a fiscally

conservative coalition... and you want to replace it?

sorry, ma'am, but that's a bad plan.

Yes, budget goes up in depression. Yes, we'll get it back down afterwards, mostly through you and me both helping to manufacture enough outrage poured on the Selfish Generation that we as a country will have the political will to tax 401ks responsibly, and inflate the hell out of our hole.

I'm betting that we, Republicans and Democrats together, can get out of our deficit -- the real one, the 100%+ of deficit "consumer debt" deficit.

But to do that, we need refridgerators. or the "new refridgerator" whatever the heck it will be. How much reading have you done on the Great Depression?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/3/1/12218/40570/560/703198

 

No, you are wrong.

...do you not get the idea of “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander”? For eight years the PR machine funded by big money Democrats has created well timed and carefully planned events to protest the actions of the Bush Regime. Now the right is using those techniques against the Obama Regime and it’s your side that’s whining about it. That’s how the game is played. Get over it.

If we play by the same rules as the Democrats did when they were out of power, we will end up pursuing government policies that are just as extreme as they are now pursuing. The only people who believe that this is how the game is played are people whose only interest is in the naked pursuit of power for power's sake so they can pursue their own corporate agenda once in power again at the expense of the grassroots.

I, and I dare say, most grassroot Republicans, care for our country and intend to regain political power the old fashion way, by earning it, not by trying to fake our way back into political power as if all we have to do is mount a better TV commerical than our political opponents.

ex animo

davidfarrar

David, what do you think I am wrong about? Tax Revolt Populism?

This is not astroturfing, regardless of whether Koch's staffers put an infrastructure together to potentially support a movement (which I have no problem with #teaparty now any more than I did with #dontgo last summer).  But even if Koch builds it, The People won't necessarily come and in this case The People were actually real - unless of course the Koch team is so technologically sophisticated that they've built robots who have been installed in previously foreclosed homes with whom I'm interacting here in California. 

I don't know what your idea of grassroots is, but if you take the time to watch the Seattle video, you'll see real community organizers who are Libertarians and Republicans doing real work on the street out in the cold with real people.  Kids like that don't become impassioned by the notion of simply winning elections!  Are you kidding me?  These kids are driven by the values and principles of liberty.  It's breathtaking.  Technology is a necessary way to support this movement, but a conservative comeback must have these boots on the ground.  When people watch their children quoting de Toqueville, Jefferson and Adams from soapboxes on the TV news wearing T-shirts that say "Don't Tax Me Bro!", that's when the movement will catch fire.  I think it's absolutely brilliant and I can't believe how lucky we are that Team Obama is wasting its political and economic capital in a way that mobilizes our team so passionately. 

I support the cause. But do the ends justify the means?

On substance, I have no issue at all. Indeed, I support the cause, as I am sure most of the "real" protesters who attended these meetings do. What I object to is the corporate elite of the party using the growing passion of our grassroots to empower themselves and their political agenda once again.  If we allow this to happen we will end up right back where we started. We will have accomplished nothing.

I am all for holding honest demonstrations to show cause. But I am not interested in doing it the way the Democrats did it. I am not interested in deceiving people to gain political power, and neither should you be, nor the Republican party. We have far, far too many legitimate issues to use rather than using a lie.  

ex animo

davidfarrar

Good, good

Good points of course!  I don't believe a word of the astroturfing propaganda that Ames and Levin are propagating because I know many of the "real" protestors.  Ok, full disclosure:  I've met a few in person and have met hundreds (thousands maybe?) virtually on Twitter and Facebook, where most of the organizing occurs.  I do know that Ames & Levin have an agenda, and it would be quite interesting to follow the money up to whomever is funding their escapades - so please look at both sides of this, and don't take all their accusations at face value.

One must be cautious, however, and I think that is good advice.  What I take umbrage to is the insinuation by Ames & Levin that the movement itself is fake simply because several Libertarian groups and sponsors may or may not be involved with helping to support it.  It is indeed a very real movement and perfectly reflects the water cooler and kitchen table anger that many, many people feel.  Think about it.  Real people go out in the cold holding up their signs, and we have these guys who've been given a venue on Playboy.com hoping to completely invalidate the viable concerns of an entire group of the "chattering classes" in one fell swoop.  That sounds like the same old tired propaganda tactics of the hostile liberal media to shut down dissent to me.  That tactic, in concert with Chuck Schumer's comments about how nobody cares how much pork is in these bills, is the real deception and lie, and many of us think that these people must be challenged. 

Since you have a platform that's not funded by corporate greed, you might want to look into joining us?  ;-)

i don't think anyone does care

how much pork we put in the federal budget--unless like Alaska they intend to run their entire state gov't on it!

Georgia, South Carolina, they run a "beggar thy neighbors" strategy.

Okay, maybe I'm wrong, but I think the only places that really care about pork are those who:

1. don't need it (liberal regions)

2. don't have many votes (North in general -- thinking Montana, Idaho, North Dakota)

... and that's about it.

Relax

Double post...sorry.

 

ex animo

davidfarrar

 

Relax

Triple post....sorry.

 

ex animo

davidfarrar

Very relaxing posts

Thanks David, one can never see that word too often these days.  ;-)

Join me

I have been thinking over our recent posts on this subject, and, more broadly, the growing political strength of the grassroots. 

My first thought was, we have been here before.  As grassroot Republicans, we have fought our way back from the political wilderness into political power before and now we are doing it again.  What went wrong?

I know I am beginning to sound like a broken record on this point, but when I do look back over the past twenty years or so years of the grassroots of this party asking their elected Republican leaders to cut government spending, lower taxes and protect our personal liberty, I see nothing but betrayal, after betrayal, after betrayal. Why did this happen and, more importantly; how can we prevent it from happening again?

As my earlier posts suggests, I see the present imbalance of our corporate wing of the party largely responsible for the last betrayal of the grassroots of your party. They used the grassroots of the party as their cannon fodder to achieve their own corporate agendum, not the party's.

How can we prevent this from happening again?

Normally, the answer to that question would be, "we can't,"  except for the recent invention of the internet. As Gingrich recently pointed out in his talk at the GOP TECH Summit: "We now have a tool that will allow us for the first time in history to actually contemplate self-government."

This to me is a far more important task we have before us than funding fake newscasts or even attending legitimate demonstrations.  We must give the grassroots their voice this time around. Allow them to speak and to be accurately heard by the party leadership. If we fail, the corporate wing of the party will again betray the grassroots by pursuing their own agendum. Won't you join me in this quest?

ex animo

davidfarrar

Thank you for the invitation

Full disclosure:

For the record, I'm firmly in the #teaparty camp.  The fact that CATO libertarians have provided website infrastructure and funding in no way deters me from this movement.  They did the same thing last summer with #dontgo, and did a great service to the House Republicans who stayed in the house and protested the Democrat refusal to drill for oil in this country after Nancy Pelosi shut down the House.  Unfortunately, even though gas was almost $5 a gallon at the time, regular Americans were not as moved by the GOP protest as I was, but that's when I became engaged with the same people who helped launch #teaparty.  Now it's in the hands of everyday people who are organizing these events in their own communities. 

Do I believe for a moment that this movement supports "corporate greed" and "big business special interests"?  No.  I do not.   Business, both large and small, is the economic engine of this country.  Credit, capital and intellectual talent are the grease, the fuel and the driver but without a business engine, the other three matter not one whit.  I agree with Larry Kudlow that war has been declared by this administration on entrepreneurs, on free markets, personal responsibility and capitalism. 

I believe that the #teaparty movement, which is very specific and particular to the above sentiment, is in the interest of all Americans who want to bring public attention to the need to restore liberty and prosperity to a country which is literally lurching daily toward economic sabotage.  I don't share populist anger over Wall Street.  I'm not interested in punishing the executives and taking them down, I'm far more interested in letting the market solve the problem by seeing their companies simply fail and be bought out by others who are responsible managers. 

I don't have a problem with a corporate angel helping to finance this and other similar movements. I've seen George Soros singlehandedly manipulate markets, currencies and singularly realize a hedge fund profit in 2008.  I believe he is a great danger to our freedom and security.  This man has bought the Democratic Party, and if we have a free market capitalist who is willing to do battle against Soros' hegemony by helping us bring a message to the media and to the people, a message of complete rebellion against what I perceive as creeping government-centric fascism, I welcome that completely.  

I am not an idealist, I realize that people are extremely fallible but they still need to be held to certain principles and standards.  Right on the heels of launching the Contract With America, Newt Gingrich persuaded the Republicans to vote with him to support Rubin's bailout of Mexico - an event which helped launch our current codependency with zombie financial institutions.  I do not believe he is the savior of the Republican Party.  He's merely another talking head, a man with clay feet just like the ones you mention have so often betrayed conservatives.  I'm over him.  I'm looking to new leadership in men like Paul Ryan and Judd Gregg - boring, stuffy, low key men who are highly competent, able, and principled.

I believe in a new generation of conservatives who are idealistic, and who do believe in standards and principles.  The standards and principles they support can be best referred to by the Leftist epithet "bourgeois".  Bourgeois principles include accountability, responsibility, civility, decorum and fidelity.  These are as much under attack as our economic system and our liberty. 

#Teaparty and social media (Twitter, Ning, Facebook, etc.) are creating, in the most dynamic possible way, a network of "radical" conservative community organizers who are, for the first time, learning from and adopting some of the very effective skills and tactics of the Left.  If you don't believe in adopting the organizing tactics of the Left and applying them to the Right, then we don't really share common ground.  I believe that this website started as a vehicle to persuade conservatives to apply the highly effective technological skills of the Left to our philosophy, and for me it follows that the Left's community organizing and street skills are a natural progression.

As always, I'm interested in your response.

hai? you're talking about soros?

Can you drop some numbers on how much of a profit he made in 2008? (google's failing me, and I figure you have them handy).

I agree with Larry Kudlow that war has been declared by this administration on entrepreneurs, on free markets, personal responsibility and capitalism.

where exactly are you getting that impression? I want specifics. Obama etc have been the largest pushback against nationalization, even when it's for the taxpayers own good. No one in his admin is talking single payer health care.

I don't share populist anger over Wall Street.  I'm not interested in punishing the executives and taking them down, I'm far more interested in letting the market solve the problem by seeing their companies simply fail and be bought out by others who are responsible managers.

The market hasn't liked responsible managers for a long long time. Looking to a company's future is anathema to all wall street CEOs -- the hedge funds would destroy the company. There is no point, no way to responsibly manage your company, when you are so dependent on how much your stock is worth -- both for your own salary and for the good of the company.

Bourgeois principles include accountability, responsibility, civility, decorum and fidelity.  These are as much under attack as our economic system and our liberty.

Sounds like fun. I'd rather have some Republicans who can be negotiated with,  again. Say what you will about Clinton and Gingrich, they were statesmen.

 

Soros Hedge Fund Turned $3B Profit in 2008

Here's a link to Soros hedgie profitability in 2008. 

Larry's quote was made based on two components: Obama's continual doom-and-gloom remarks eroding market confidence (he's no FDR) and his shock-and-awe budget being announced at the absolute worst possible economic time. 

you're so totally wrong. that's 2007 profitiability

the article was published in april of 2008. People were extremely lucky to be able to get 10%, 30% was the maximum (from an astrology group) for all the publically available numbers.

If you'll listen to me, I've been calling for the dissolution of hedge funds for a long long time.

I'm pretty sure that a supermajority of Americans were feeling more optimistic after Obama's State of the Union.

Market confidence? If the markets were trading at all accurately, and they will be, stocks will pay higher dividends than bonds. This is a world depression, and Obama is if anything going light on the consequences, because none of us know where we're going to wind up just yet.

I dont' see any of the stock market losses being due to his budget. It's simple: three month cycle. Three months, and then more people want out of their hedgefunds. Poof! Deflation on the stock market. Why didn't this happen sooner? Because the hedge fund contract says that they can only pull money out at certain intervals.

The stimulus was actually timed pretty well for sparking some sort of rally. Think about it: give people places to bet on (green energy, construction, etc), release better than expected January spending numbers (because of an entirely predictable gift card spending frenzy)...

Unfortunately, this fell smack dab into "aftereffects of Oct/Nov/Dec consumer spending crash" -- Japans numbers collapsing, China's collapsing, ongoing worry about the European Union...

Things are genuinely bad out there -- and the market is acting decently! Expect a rally soon, it can't keep plunging -- too many people will start shorting, and then the market really can't fall until there are people on the upside of the trades again.

MY hedge fund manager beats your hedgefund manager.

seriously. There's no indication that Soros talking about the global economy would cause a problem in Nigeria. He's talking out of his ass, just like everyone else is. But he has a significant chance of being right.

800% profits in the first three quarters of 2008 were goddamn NECESSARY to withstand the losses that hedge funds took in the last quarter, if they didn'tw ant to go out of business. Make 500% profits, and you were/are kaput.

I like Soros -- he's actually interested in regulating the industry he works in, which is by and large completely unregulated.

But he does not control the democratic party, and never will.

The party structure is what it is. (lagomorph)

There is nothing wrong with corporatism per se. It is simply the political imbalance within the Republican party to which I speak.

While the vast majority of members of the Republican party are grassroot members, the party is funded and led by its corporate wing. It is their agendum the party has supported, will support, and not the political aspirations of limited government, less taxes and more liberty you and I, and all of the #teaparty participants support. 

Unless the grassroot of the party is empowered within the party, this imbalance till continue. The corporate elite of the party will happily fund and support all of your political interests only to exploit them in the end to service their own political ends. This is not speculation, this is historical fact.

So go ahead, act like a typical grassrooter -- scream out your soul on some dark, freezing street corner if it makes you feel better. It won't matter. Someone in the party has already spoken for you.

ex animo

davidfarrar

A very successful method

For grassroots movements to be taken seriously by politicians is to demonstrate in large enough numbers that it gets media coverage, and to have a significant community presence (including the online community).  We don't have these numbers yet, but we can.

We also don't have enough grassroots delegates to the local, state and national conventions. 

Your points are well taken, and I'm certainly interested in learning how to increase knowledge toward influencing the party (or parties - Libertarian and Republican).  Please do tell me more.

Grassroot movenments are not taken seriously...

...by politicians. Grassroot movements are led by politicians. All a politician has to do is say the right words in front of the right crowd, while accepting campaign contributions from the corporate body, and the party will do the rest. After all, what do grassroot movements do after the elections?

They disperse. They have no choice in the matter because they are now leaderless. This is when the corporate elite of the party step in to carry out its corporate agendum.

The trick is not to become leaderless after the election. The trick is to have the grassroots become its own leader, a leadership that continues after the election to see to it that the promises made during the election are kept after the election, and to be ready to speak out when their voice is needed. The trick is to use the internet for the first time in history to give the grassroots of the party a voice. Allow it to speak and to be accurately heard.

I just receive another silly email from Michael Steele, suggesting that he knows what his new mission is as Chairman of the RNC: "...is to rebuild our party from the grassroots up – using new technology to spread our conservative message and remind voters that our party is the one and only true party of the people.

"But before we get too far down that road, we’ve got some unfinished business to attend to. Specifically, we’ve got to stop liberal Democrat comedian Al Franken from stealing Norm Coleman’s U.S. Senate seat in Minnesota."

He goes on to make yet another request for a donation to the party.

What this email is telling me is that nothing has really changed with the party elite. Since the grassroots have no leader, they are simply viewed by the party as simple cannon fodder, each with the words,"Hit me for donations," clearly painted on our backs.

If Mr. Steele clearly understood the importance of empowering the grassroots of the party to restoring the party to its political prominence, he would have first carried out his commitment to "...rebuild our party from the grassroots up – using new technology to spread our conservative message and remind voters that our party is the one and only true party of the people,"  to insure that whatever happens in Minnesota will be irrelevant to the future of this party, to this Republic, to this nation and to its people.

ex animo

davidfarrar 

Totally agreed

I did not support Steele when he ran for chair because he was very distant from those of us on Twitter. He strikes me as such a media talking head and not at all tech-savvy.  I lobbied my state RNC Chair to press the case for both Anuzis and Blackwell.  Anuzis is probably the most grassroots and tech-savvy, and Blackwell caught up wth Saul nicely during the RNC campaign and struck me as a very strong executive leader.  

All the same old RNC players have been re-elected in my state, and the requests for money are steadily flowing in.  #teaparty costs nothing except time, nor did Grover's interview on News Hour last night, and both spoke a great deal more eloquently about conservative values than Steele has thus far.  I find the RNC to be a very disappointing enterprise that I don't wish to support with my hard-earned cash. 

I watched Grover Norquist on News Hour last night and he blew me away in his interview with Gwen Ifil. There is a man who strikes me as a potential grassroots leader.

Look, haven't you read anything I have written to you?

Go ahead, knock yourself out with Grover Norquist. When the silent majority shouts out Norquist's name, he will answer. When he obtains public office, the silent majority will only be an impediment to him, as Obama has shown us with his 13-million. Without a sustain grassroots presence after his election, he will inevitable fall prey to the corporate leadership of the Republican party and to their agenda.

ex animo

Photobucket

davidfarrar

David...

Let's just agree to disagree.  Obviously we're on very different pages.  I like Norquist, and I have no knowledge of him running for office.  I'm thrilled with the #teaparty movement and I wish you nothing but luck in your political endeavors. 

I don't think we are in a disagreement.

This is not an either or situation. This is a let's do both situation. 

I am suggesting we have gone down this road before. We have rallied around our grassroot leaders only to be eventually led astray before. Our choice now is to either learn from our past mistakes or keep repeating them. I suggest this time around we do something different than what we have done in the past. I suggest this time around we empower the grassroot movement itself by giving it a voice. Allow it to speak and insist that it be accurately heard by party leaders and by our elected officials.

Think of it as a political insurance policy. So no matter who eventually steps forward to led the grassroot movement, the movement itself will prevail.

ex animo

davidfarrar

Young Republicans and Randists

are the definition of astroturf.

;-)

caveat emptor.

[not that i'm saying anything about this particular episode -- other than another fine scoop by Playboy!]

Relax.

You and I both now the grassroots are stirring. When they decide to move, no amount of silly left-hand journalism or back-room deception is going to stop it. What we must try to do is help steer it towards positive political change for the good of all.

Towards that end; I suggest we first give the grassroots of the party its voice. Allow it to speak and to be accurately heard by the party leadership.

ex animo

davidfarrar

rofl.

yes, by damn tax the idiotic small businessmen. who the hell owns a sole proprietorship?

then set out small forms on how to change to an LLC, which is what they should have, in the first place.

Fools will always be fools -- why not tax them for the priviledge?

What kind of a house do you need, to spend an extra $13

per WEEK on ELECTRICITY???

I mean, that would be about 50% increase in my electric bill.... in the WINTER. in the cold-as-all-hell winter we've been having.

I think some folks need to learn how to live in an eighty degree house again. This wont' affect the poor nearly as much as lagomorph thinks. It'll affect the slightly rich, and that's fine by me. They could use some abject lessons in conservation.

Plus, you get a rebate for adding your own electricity (solar or wind), so what is the ducky deal here?

The New Totalitarian Austerity

Your perspective seems to be based on "just who the hell do these people think they are not to live exactly like me, who knows best the size of house one ought to have, the amount of energy one ought to use, the car (or public transportation) one ought to employ," etc. 

This self-righteousness of the Left has no regard for the individual and focuses solely on the collective that you seem to think we should all aspire to at best and adhere to at worst.  But guess what - we don't.  It diametrically opposes a libertarian and conservative philosophy which values the individual over the collective and doesn't think that anyone knows what's best for anyone else.

From a purely sociological perspective, it's intriguing that the Left's hedonism (typically) in matters of sex, drugs and rock 'n roll is accompanied (often) by a total austere ascetism in matters of architecture and diet.  Morality is defined only as the collective good.  The Right, on the other hand, (generally) practices a somewhat more sober lifestyle where morality is a much more individual matter coupled with (generally) robust and rich architecture and dietary preferences.  Tom Wolfe wrote a  book titled "From Bauhaus to Our House" which goes into some of these variations with his typical keen wit and sharp observations. 

The life you aspire for us to live sounds horrifically extremist, boring, sparse, monastic and gray.  Just sayin'.  If this is a pitch for that life, it's highly unlikely to go over as a popular new brand.

I've a military aesthetic, not a liberal one.

never been drunk, never done drugs, no pictures on my walls for anyone. And always ready to move at the drop of a hat.

I'm not by any means saying that's for everyone. But if you can roast a chicken in a quarter of the time, for less than a quarter of the electricity, why aren't you??? [yes, I love my convection oven!]

How many rightwingers do you know in the Slow Food movement? (were you the one I tossed a link to about killing chickens? that's from a crazy lefty chemist turned farmer). [honest question, I don't have many friends in the republican camp]

I definitely don't think I define morality only as the collective good -- although my inclination is certainly more that way than a purely individualistic sense -- by which I'm taking you to mean Kantian, as I'm not sure what else we can reasonably discuss. Enlighten my ignorance, by all means!

You got all that from my $80 electricity bill? wowsa. Funny thing about aescetism -- necessity is the mother of invention. And kids especially get really creative when you take away the "modern necessities"

love your title there.

but I don't actually aspire for us to live like this! I like it, you may not. each to his own.

If anything, it's the free-market republicans who aspire for everyone to ... live according to their means. ;-) [please don't compare me to marx. marx was silly]

Marx...

Groucho usually comes to mind more than Karl when I read some of your posts.  :o)

Speaking of odd political friendships, one of the most charming examples is between William F. Buckley and principled liberal Allard K. Lowenstein.  Lowenstein appeared on Firing Line more often than any other guest.  The debates between Buckley and most liberals were sharp at best and dripping with elegantly hostile condescension at worst, but with Lowenstein it was always mutually respectful debate and affectionate banter.  I'm fortunate to own several classic episodes of Firing Line that capture these rich exchanges.   Lowenstein died a tragic death at the hands of a deranged gunman, and I don't think anyone in the liberal movement was more despondent over his loss than his dear conservative friend WFB. 

thank you for the compliment!

... at least I think it was a compliment ;-)

I'm glad I amuse someone with my oddball sense of humor.

Buckley will be missed as much for his presence as his absence. Goldwater proves the mettle of the Conservative Movement, not Buckley.