Joe Wilson Gives Voice to Frustration

joe shouldn't apologize

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Where can I donate to Joe Wilson's re-election campaign?

His website is crashed right now, but as soon as it comes back up the check will be in the mail.

Please cite your source.

You claim that Joe Wilson was right, that the president lied.  This is from FactCheck.org:

False: Illegal Immigrants Will Be Covered

One Republican congressman issued a press release claiming that "5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare," and we’ve been peppered with queries about similar claims. They’re not true. In fact, the House bill (the only bill to be formally introduced in its entirety) specifically says that no federal money would be spent on giving illegal immigrants health coverage:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers don’t offer it.

Source link:  http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/

What evidence exists that Joe Wilson is correct, to refute the president's statement?

Let me be clear...

I did not post this blog in order to argue with leftists over whether the President lied. He did.

I do not blog here to talk to leftists. If I wanted to do that, I'd move over to Slate or something along those lines. I could care less what obvious lefties have to say on this issue. If I wanted any crap out of you, I'd have squeezed your pimply heads. Of course, you're welcome to comment all you like, but such will not generate a reply from me.

There are enough left-leaning Republicans around here with whom to argue! ;-)

M

No credibility

I do not blog here to talk to leftists. If I wanted to do that, I'd move over to Slate or something along those lines. I could care less what obvious lefties have to say on this issue. If I wanted any crap out of you, I'd have squeezed your pimply heads. Of course, you're welcome to comment all you like, but such will not generate a reply from me.

And that is why people like you have no credibility. 

You will not generate a reply from me...

Of course, you're welcome to comment all you like, but such will not generate a reply from me.

This is priceless ... you just spent time replying to me, to tell me that you will not generate a reply to me! 

Wouldn't it have been faster just to insert a link to the source that proves the president was lying when he said the bill prohibited coverage to illegal immigrants? 

Unless, maybe, no such proof exists??

Let me be clear

He presented you with actual, undeniable evidence from a congressional bill and you respond with dismissive ad hominem attacks.  What a jerk.  Thank God the future of the party is no longer in your hands 

At least Wilson realized how stupid his outburst was

What Wilson did was immensely stupid and very, very bad political theater. At least he was smart enough to realize it was a mistake and apologize for it immediately. You, on the other hand, have had several hours to reflect on it so there is no excuse for this post.

The great mass of Independents in this country are not going to be attracted to the Republican party by scenes of southern white men unable to follow the most basic rules of decorum while Obama speaks.

The scenes of Cantor texting were also a disgrace.

Wilson was ordered to call

As I've said elsewhere, the leadership ordered Wilson to call the White House.  It wasn't his idea.  They are to be comended for that.  Credit where credit is due. 

He's directly quoted by the AP.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/1227102.html

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/world/09/10/09/obama-heckler-says-outburst-spontaneous

 

On illegal immigrants

Because Democrats have consistently blocked application of any effective mechanism to exclude illegal immigrants.  If it is not specifically prevented, it will happen.  And that is the intent of many of the bill's supporters.

Again, please cite the source.

The language of H.R. 3200 is very clear.

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Also, current federal law states that those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs, and nothing in this bill would modify or remove that law.  Again, please cite your source for the claim that H.R. 3200 or existing federal law would extend health care benefits to illegal immigrants.

Obama's is a lie of omission.

Obama's is a lie of omission. Where does the bill state that proof of eligibility is required?

 

If the law prohibits payments

If the law prohibits payments or participation in federal health programs, the application forms for those will ask about eligibility (of all kinds; not just residency but also income, etc.).  It would be enforcable as other federal laws are; if fraud is documented, the perpetrator can be charged with a federal crime.

I don't object to asking for proof of eligibility, whether residency or income.  My point was that it was a 'lie' for Rep. Wilson to claim it was a 'lie' that the bill provides coverage for illegal immigrants; by the clear terms of the bill, it does not. 

It's true that illegal immigrants often obtain fraudulent citizenship documents.  It's true today and it will be true if health care reform is passed.  If Republicans want to propose significant increases in funding for enforcement personel to investigate and prosecute fraud in federal programs (of all kinds), they'll get no complaints from me.  But it's pointless grandstanding to put proof of eligibility requirements or enforcement terms in the bill if we're not actually going to fund enforcement, when mechanisms already exist to enforce laws.  The words on the paper might mollify some people but without committing sufficient resources to enforcement it's no more enforcable than current laws are. 

The fact that we don't adequately fund enforcement efforts for other types of fraud (e.g., Medicare fraud by providers) is analogous.  It's illegal today to defraud Medicare by billing for services not performed; but does it happen?  Of course it does.  So the words on the paper are meaningless unless you fund staffing to enforce them. 

Easy to do, acinphx...

Let's begin by pointing out that FactCheck isn't exactly a reliable, unbiased source of fair and balanced analysis.

Rather, I think your president's own words speak to the issue of what will happen and what are his intentions --the Democrat House bill was a deliberate attempt to divert attention from the real, pragmatic intent of the Obama Administration and House Democrats.  Lying, unfortunately, works real well in Washington and Obama and the House Democrats know that dirty secret.  "Promise the People anything" --was SlickWilly's action plan.  "We kept all the campaign promises we intended to keep" was his motto as his team left town the last time.  Obama is no different.

The number most often cited by your president, Barack Obama, and his surrogates is the roughly 46+ million uninsured. Of that number, according to the US Census Bureau, somewhere between 10 million and 17% of those uninsured ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS.

That's not me, acinphx.  That's reporting carried by the President's personal newscasters over at the Democrat and liberally inclined, MSNBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32302292/ns/health-health_care/

Obama has repeatedly said "I want to cover all 46 million uninsured".  That the bills have language NOW to exclude illegal aliens doesn't mean the final plan will do so --especially if the final plan is adopted without a printed copy of the bill being available to Congress... like with the bill creating the Stimulus Spending Junket, the Cash4Clunkers Program, etc.

(BTW, the auto dealerships still haven't been paid as promised, 88% of the Stimulus Spending Junket is still unspent, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are more violent and America is losing the support of allies daily in a set of wars Bush was winning, bin Laden still hasn't been caught, Obama hasn't repealed the DADT policy like he promised the gayLeft, the Justice Dept is on a witch hunt after CIA staff even though Obama promised they wouldn't do exactly that, the deficit is spiralling out of control, our trade deficit is rapidly approaching the worst in the Free World, unemployment continues to climb, Obama's polling numbers are dropping faster than any GOP President in the last 30 yrs and... worst of all, blacks are still claiming they need special protections and special advantages not available to others even though they got a black president in the White House.  No wonder Obama has to resort to lies.)

acinphx... your own president concedes he really wants to cover illegal aliens.  Of course, he won't call them that when the time rolls around for a signing ceremony.  He'll call the "future Obama voters" and that's a lot closer to the truth than Obama has come in a long, long time.

Let's begin by pointing out

Let's begin by pointing out that FactCheck isn't exactly a reliable, unbiased source of fair and balanced analysis.

Then don't rely on FactCheck.  Read the bill; I cited the section # and a simple Google search will yield the existing federal law that disqualifies illegal immigrants from federal health programs.

... the Democrat House bill was a deliberate attempt to divert attention from the real, pragmatic intent of the Obama Administration and House Democrats. 

The only thing that's enforcable is the actual terms of a bill (law).  Your belief that Democrats are acting in bad faith is just and only that: your belief.

Obama has repeatedly said "I want to cover all 46 million uninsured".  That the bills have language NOW to exclude illegal aliens doesn't mean the final plan will do so --especially if the final plan is adopted without a printed copy of the bill being available to Congress... like with the bill creating the Stimulus Spending Junket, the Cash4Clunkers Program, etc.

Well then, it sounds like we need to wait for the final bill to see if your belief is correct.  We'll also have to wait to see if your second fear comes true.  However, neither changes the fact that the president wasn't lying about the fact that the current bill prohibits coverage of illegal immigrants.

Your "BTW" paragraph is nothing but a litany of complaints from the right and left about other issues.  I don't see how any of them are determinative as to whether the president's statement that the current bill prohibits coverage to illegal immigrants was a lie?

Here's my BTW:  illegal immigrants can currently obtain false citizenship documents relatively easily (although not cheaply) in order to vote or document eligibility for federal benefits.  Seems they could be Obama voters with or without healthcare reform?  Should we deny healthcare access to 30 million Americans just to run a sham of claim that illegal immigrants can't obtain healthcare today?