The Dissolution of the United States of America

begone

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markamerica is wrong: *red* states feed at Federal trough

> Why will this country fall?

> Like so many others in history,

> there will soon be a backlash by the productive

> class against the political ruling class, and their

>pets in the dependent class.  It's coming.

>There will be clear regional divisions, pitting rural against urban,

>and there will be divisions between the dying post-industrial North

>and the vibrant re-constructed South. There will be battles between

>the breadbasket of the plains states, and the coast states that eat their bounty.

 

You make it sound as if the rural (conservative leaning) states of the South are the ones that are producing the wealth whereas the Democrats of the North are mere consumers. Here are some facts that suggests otherwise:

States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid: (bold=trends Republican) [ source: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html ]

1. D.C. ($6.17) 2. North Dakota ($2.03) 3. New Mexico ($1.89) 4. Mississippi ($1.84) 5. Alaska ($1.82) 6. West Virginia ($1.74) 7. Montana ($1.64) 8. Alabama ($1.61) 9. South Dakota ($1.59) 10. Arkansas ($1.53)

 

These figures are from 2004 but I doubt much has changed. "Red" states tend to be poorer, sparsely populated and consequently tend to receive more federal subsidies despite their "government should leave us alone!" ethos. Now, some Republicans have tried to explain away the discrepancy by noting that small states such as Alabama are more likely to have government faclities than e.g. California, yet for some reason you don't see wealthier small states such as Oregon or Vermont on this list. 

 MARCU$ 

 

 

These figures are from 2004

These figures are from 2004 but I doubt much has changed.

It hasn't changed. Almost all of the taxpaying states are Democratic blue states, while almost all of the revenue-sucking states are Republican red states. That's consistently been the case in the last three presidential elections, and probably goes back further than that (no one seems to have run the data on older elections).

In last year's election, Obama won every taxpaying state except Texas. By contrast, every McCain state except Texas is a revenue-sucking state.

The Republicans of the red states revel in their conservatism while living off the revenue provided by the federal government via the taxpaying blue states. The geographical heart of American conservatism is kept afloat via welfare provided by liberal America.

Once again...

You, like so many others, conflate the meaning of one-sided numbers. These states, that you claim tend to be poorer, also have much lower cost-of-living.

If you asked me whether I'd rather have a job with an annual salary of $50k in Texas, or $100k in New York, I'd answer the former, and laugh at the New Yorker.

And by the way, industrial production is and has been shifting to the south for decades.

As for the discrepancy, it is true. The military, for instance, prefers to have bases on which they can train year-round. NASA, by virtue of what it does, bases almost all of its most expensive operations in the south. Another overwhelming discrepancy is the burden southern states, particularly the 'border states' carry with respect to illegal immigration, a clear failure of the federal government in its own responsibilities.

Can you tell me why, for instance, Texas ought to shoulder the burdens of illegal immigrants numbering in the millions because the thugs in DC refuse to enforce the border?

So yeah, sure, you can point out discrepancies, but how many of them are self-imposed by the federal government?

It's really not rocket science, but all of this ignores my point in favor of perpetuating the blame game: How do you wish to go about ending the United States? It will end. What are your suggestions to help keep that end peaceful?

Mark

Texas is such a small state, a babe unable to defend itself

Texas is such a small state. 2nd in land area. 2nd in population. Unable to fend off the hordes of illegals spreading filth and disease, it would like to secede from the union.  Alas, where is the Texan legislature?  Is it possible to write a law that would round up anyone that looks non-white and if they don't have a birth certificate or passport in their pocket, put them into a paddy wagon with their woman and children, lock them up behind barb wire like the cattle they are until they can be shipped in a cargo container back to whereever they came from?  How much would it cost to incarcerate the "millions" of illegals for a few months until they can be deported? (They'll slip right back across the border anyway.) To hire the law enforcement, guards, purchase the land, build the tent camps, patrol the borders?  Oh that's ok we'll just bill the FEDERAL government that we want to secede from.  Yeah that's the ticket. No new taxes, just put the financial burden on the stock brokers in NYC! Yeah that'll show those darn liberals. 

There's a reason why republicans in 8 years (6 controlling two both legislature and presidenncy.) was unable to solve this immigration "problem". You're full of it.  They do the jobs at a price that generally conservative businessmen like. Apartment building would suddenly empty out.  Grocery stores shut down.  That's why you don't see raids on farms, slaugherhouses, restaurants and hotels.  Everyone knows where they work.  (And it isn't the local hospital doing brain surgery.)  It isn't difficult to figure out where they live.  It isn't the suburbs in 5 bedroom houses. This is not a complex issue, but it is one where folk like you don't get it. You suck up the racism and bigotry promoted by Glenn Beck like a pig with lipstick, but don't want to pay for the solutions. The FEDERAL government should solve the problem. Should pay for everything. We should tax everyone else and just reap the "benefits".  HOW LIBERAL!  You don't get the economics that drives this issue or have the political will to resolve this.   You blame the federal government?  Ha!  Typical republican, unable to do anything, figure out anything. Hello, Conservatism is about local control and not FEDERAL CONTROL, a concept obviously too complex for you. You'll just blame everyone else besides yourself.  Typical. No plan, no ideas.

Solving the problem will cost money.  If it's that important to you, then get it done. Raise taxes, hire policemen, pass laws, build prisons, hire judges, build court rooms, figure out what to do with the U.S. born children, (amend the u.s. constitution to handle that)  Otherwise shut up.

Oh and the U.S. is not going to dissolve because Texas has illegal aliens.  You really just show how stupid you are.

 

Small problem...

Texas has tried to undertake measures to control illegals, including the governor asking the feds for permission to stage National Guardsmen to help stop the border crossings...

And the federal government said "NO!"

Now, whatever else you may think about it, that's not something Texas can currently overcome. The federal government prohibits Texas from acting.

Having again drifted off-topic with another clod not interested in the original topic, please explain for me what you  want to do about the United States' eventual dissolution.

Please... The floor is yours.

Mark

RE: Once again...

markinamerica,

By almost any metric, the wealthiest and most successful states tend to be Democratic ones...

Take e.g. Gross State Product per capita which measures the total economic output (only Wyoming and Alaska are GOP strongholds):

Rank  ↓ State  ↓ GDP per capita in USD  ↓
0 District of Columbia 64,991
1 Connecticut 56,248
2 New Jersey 50,919
3 Massachusetts 50,735
4 Wyoming 49,719
5 Maryland 48,091
6 New York 48,076
7 Alaska 43,321
8 Virginia 42,876
9 New Hampshire 42,830
10 Minnesota 42,772
11 California 42,696
12 Illinois 42,397
13 Colorado 42,377
14 Washington 42,356
15 Rhode Island 41,008
16 Delaware 40,852
17 Hawaii 40,490
18 Nevada 40,353
19 Pennsylvania 40,265
  United States average 39,751

 

> How do you wish to go about ending the United States?

>It will end. What are your suggestions to help keep that end peaceful?

 

Oh, I would  love to see the Deep South secede from the U.S.!  Gov.Perry is correct. Both sides would be better off if Texas & co. decide to part ways. Most of these states are cultural and economic backwaters, perpetually subsidized by the populous Atlantic and Pacific coastal states.

Why would do you assume the end would not be peaceful, by the way? The U.S. is no longer as violent as in 1860-65 after all, so is there any reason to expect more conflict than when Russia/Ukraine/Byelorussia and the Czech Republic/Slovakia decided to become independent nations?

MARCU$