According to My Alma Mater, Pro-Free Market Folks Like Me Are Completely Delusional

BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT: It's time for the Right to become smarter in places where we're typically uncomfortable.

Hat tip to Jon Henke who tweeted this post from Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute:

I don’t know whether this belongs in the comic-relief category or the future-threats category, but the Harvard Law School is having a conference to analyze the “free market mindset.” The basic premise of the conference seems to be that people who believe in limited government are psychologically troubled.

The conference schedule features presentations such as “How Thinking Like an Economist Undermines Community” and “Addicted to Incentives: How the Ideology of Self Interest Can Be Self-Fulfilling.” The most absurd presentation, though, may be the one entitled, “Colossal Failure: The Output Bias of Market Economies.” According to the description, the author argues that the market “delivers excessive levels of consumption.” Damn those entrepreneurs for creating so much wealth!

I came out of Harvard with an undergraduate and graduate degree. This is one of the few times where I was shocked and not surprised at the same time when I read the introduction to this conference:

What is it about free markets that proves - and still continues to prove - so alluring to economists, scholars, and policy-makers alike?

The March 7 conference to take place at Harvard Law School, brings together leading scholars in law, economics, social psychology, and social cognition to present and discuss their research regarding the historical origins, psychological antecedents, and policy consequences of the free market mindset. Their work illustrates that the magic of the marketplace is partially an illusion based on faulty assumptions and outmoded approaches.

Fortunately, there are a few folks at Harvard, like economics professor Robert Barro, who keep people honest. Here's what he says in a recent Tax Foundation podcast:

The economy did very well for the next several years after the tax cuts of 2003. And it's very unfair that Obama has blamed that program for part of the current financial collapse. There's really no linkage between the tax rate cutting program of 2003 and the financial and housing collapse we've seen in recent months.

Yes, the concept of this conference at Harvard Law School is crazy. But there's a larger point to be made here. On this blog, we've talked a lot about the way forward for conservatives and the GOP. When it comes to elections, the argument has been made that we have to reach out to new places (places that we have ignored) to grow our base and communicate a new conservative message: urban areas, African-American churches, ethnic community meetings, etc. When it comes to public policy, the argument has been made that we need use principles of old to come up with new solutions for new times and new crises.

The point is that we must argue for our free market principles and new solutions in places where we feel most uncomfortable: i.e. the academic arena. We can't be afraid of taking on the liberal supermajority in academia, nor should we be afraid of trying to cultivate conservative intellectuals at colleges and universities. It isn't enough to have think tanks that act as safe havens of intellectual freedom for conservatives. And sure, we need to find creative ways to explain the complexities of the free market. The fact is that (1) more conservatives need to welcome intellectual thought and debate, and (2) more conservatives need to take the fight to the academic world. The Right needs to make itself relevant in places where it is currently seen as irrelevant, instead of sticking to places where we feel comfortable.

Oddly enough, I say this on the eve of the biggest kumbaya/"singing to the choir event" for the Right: CPAC.

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 When you figure out how not

 When you figure out how not to destroy the middle class, let us know.

yes and no

Yes,

1) more conservatives need to welcome intellectual thought and debate, and (2) more conservatives need to take the fight to the academic world. The Right needs to make itself relevant in places where it is currently seen as irrelevant, instead of sticking to places where we feel comfortable.

No,

I think the term 'free market' is mis- and overused. No developed country is ever going to have a completely open market. It's been tried and it fails badly in wild swings, and politicians and people don't like wild swing. A better discussion is when government helps and when it hurts. And for the right (actually, for fiscual conservatives which includes many democrats . . . it's true!) there should be credible research and numbers. Now it's old-man tirades.

I'm for a limited government not because it works better or it's any more fair, but because it's cheaper and more managable. You can look at systems (any system) and with size cost is exponential and effectiveness decress  . . . . the law of decreasing returns. You can look at medicare, social security, the military, farm subsidies . . . and they're costly to run and increasing are ineffective.

And that is a better basis to argue academically as well.

 

Great point!

Great point, cr! Academically, we have to acknowledge that there are free market failures and imperfections, whether they be in the short term and long term. After coming up with clear definition of "failure," the first question to ask is whether or not government should be involved in correcting the failure. The second question to ask is how government should target the failure without targeting the market as a whole.

this sounds fantastic!

and when you're able to say "here is where government intervention is appropriate" i'll be a hell of a lot more willing to listen to you about other things.

Because you won't be so extremist.

I do believe that "free market ideology" has become oversold, via Greenspan. We know now that some regulations ARE GOOD for the economy and the industry -- even if the cheats hate them! Anyone who does food safety understands that the gov't worker who comes in to do an inspection is a HELP to them! (not in the least of which because they don't have to hire a lab themselves to do biyearly testing).

First we need to define "Free Market"

My concern is over definitions. Yes, the Republican party has preached cutting social programs and lower some taxes. But the GOP has also historically assumed that corporate welfare was okay: propping up failing airlines, failing banks (S&L circa 1990), subsidizing giant military equipment producers. Forget about discussing the Federal Reserve. This is a solid bastion.

So what is a "Free Market" to you? For many Americans, history has shown it means Privatize the Profits, and Socialize the Risk. Let's set some definitions.

 

Tax Code Neutrality

I hear you, jaydedman! We need to start a discussion about the status quo distortions within fiscal policy that prop up corporate welfare versus tax code neutrality, which free-marketers should be for. Here's a "principle of sound tax policy" from the Tax Foundation:

"The fundamental purpose of taxes is to raise necessary revenue for programs, not micromanage a complex market economy with subsidies and penalties. The tax system's central aim should be to minimize distortions in the economy, and to interfere as little as possible with the decsions of free people in the marketplace."

The argument is simple: it's not government's job to pick winners and losers in the free market. But to communicate this message to the American people is tough. We absolutely have to have a discussion about the use and abuse of the tax code to promote a Congress's or Adminstration's economic or social policy.

Reality?

I'm with you here, but to get the regular person on board...this cannot just be about cutting taxes since usually it means the rich will stay rich. For example, many people realize that "cutting captial gains" only affect the upper echelon. Working people are only affected by payroll taxes so they realize that they will be the ones funding the government. This is why Obamawas smart with his tax cuts.

If you want to sell Free Market principles to an ordinary person, he can't feel like he's hanging free but the politically connectedare covered. Your vision also must mean cutting off government plunder to everyone. No welfare for people or corporations.

Do you really think business interests within the GOP will buy this vision of a Free Market? This means Monsanto and ADM will cease to get farm subsidies. This means Lockheed/Martin can't expect billions of govt dollars each year. If an airline is bankrupt, the doors are closed. Banks must maintain their own reserves without bailout guarantee.

Are we trying to define the rules of a Free Market, or are we just talking about tax reform?

Exactly . .

Personally, my definition would be

      1. Taxes are mostly flat. The government makes a tremendous mess of things when they incentivize through taxes. Unfortunately, pols use various schemes to promote that they 'are doing something' about something.

     2. Government is responsible for regulating for the public safety . . . no arsenic in my milk, but not incentivizing through subsidies. Or limited subsidies. Quite honestly, subsidies will exist. It'd be impossible to ban them. I thought it would be nice to have a subsidy law. Something like an industry can be subsidized but only through law, and only for a limited period e.g. three years with one three year extension. The problem with subsidies now is that they stay permanent.

    3. Arguing where the freemarket reigns. I don't want free market education for my kids. We shouldn't have free-market highways. However, government shouldn't ever have production quotas or ever be defining what industries should be developing. In many cases, I'd like the two tier method. One government, one private . . . like schools. I'm not against a staid over-regulated federal bank as long as there's no government involvment  or prevention in private equity.

seems sensible.

are you against a progressive tax system? -- or are you just on the whole craziness of a "capital gains" tax rate, and all the tax cheatery that each and every one of us does?

non - involvment

I've thought about it and I've come up with the conclusion that I'll never be in a position to ever incluence policy on that. If we just took about about 4,000 lines of tax code, I'd pretty happy on that subject.

This has been in my mind for some time

I'm in IT so I can't help but think of things in terms of systems. What's missing in government, but present in a lot of industries are 'frameworks'. Frameworks don't tell you exactly what to do in each system since actions and circumstances are dynamic, but there are broad level guidlines that lead to an overall health of any processes or system

The problem when discussing gov't is that people argue about 'free market' or whose a socialist or whatever. These are goopy terms. To many very liberal democrats, they aren't socialist in their definition of the term socialists. So in discussion, you get nowhere.

The republicans have the 'plank', but again its so abstractly defines as to be useless outside of campaigning.

I would love for a party to have a framework e.g. taxes are not used for incentives or disinsentives. Can incentives in taxes work? In limited circumstances, yes. However, in practice the problem leaves or changes far quicker than the tax code. So attacking a problem in that way is a bad idea. The current market debacle is such a scenario. The original program wanted to promote houses in the minority market. That was good because blacks were explicitly being descriminated against. However, that program got high jacked and was started being used a measure of the economy by BOTH parties. More homeowner = good economy. All of a sudden, you had every polician making it easier for the banks to give out loans for everything.

In short, we may disagree on what conservatism means, but it's hard to disagree on using taxes as incentives. In that way, conversatives can battle free spending pols on all sides of the equation. Here I focus on taxes, but my framework could apply in many, many situations.

what I'm hearing from you is

sunsetting all tax breaks. I guess I'd be gladder to see that on a state level than a federal one, as the southern states in general subsidize industries to a collosal extent. Much more of a problem, imho, in the states than in the federal government.

Not that the federal government doesn't have its own problems...

If you can draft a more complete framework, or describe what a framework would entail, that would be something to toss at Obama's "ideas from the people" website.

What do you do in IT?

Engineering, installation, project management?

Why? Gotta contract?

PM / Developer

Do websites for a financial publisher. When I thought of the framework I was thinking along the lines of ITIL or CMMI . . . or Six Sigma.

Ha! Not quite.

I'm a network tech, active duty USAF.

I was thinking you were IT like infrastructure stuff, routers, switches, etc etc. IT's too broad of a category heh.

I like frameworks...

...and I also like your example of good intentions get perverted. cr says:

Government is responsible for regulating for the public safety...

In my definition of a Free Market, this would not be a function of government. For example, I have no doubt that the Food and Drug Administration was created to keep our food safe, to make sure I'm not killed by bad meat. Think of how China is dealing with poison in their milk.

But now we have an FDA is that is perverted by corporate interests who use regulation to control the market. Now we have a situation where I cannot butcher and sell my own meat without an FDA-approved salughter house which is probhibitively expensive. I cannot sell milk to my neighbors without an FDA-approved pastuerazation diary. So regulations that are supposed to protect people, are ironically now used to centralized power in a few hands. Look at the recent poison peanut debacle. Ever drive by a cattle feed lot?

A Free Market would say, "Caveat Emptor". Consumers should be encouraged by rationality to buy locally. Production is then decentralized. If a business makes a bad product, they are out of business. Reputation rules.

I know this may be wonky stuff, but these are the kinds of informed discussions we need to have if people are really to understand that the Free Market is not just a perverted club to beat them over the head.

 

that certainly applies on the local level

It's a bit much to ask for paradise on earth. They're will always be a fight between the local and federal on some level. Federal regulation on imports is a good thing, but should they ban milk from the cows tit? People will argue about that forever. People always want more regulation once they've been harmed (even if it's their own damn fault) and want less when things are good. And pols are always quick to exploit the sentimate.

I still stick to my point which is NO party has a measurable standard by which policy can be set.

And a good question to myself is, as a libertarian do I agree with a framework? I guess I'm a moderate . . .  or a LINO?

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actually, from a framework point of view, this should exist. Basically does your raw milk cross state line? No, it's not federal. Do you label your milk as raw? Then big deal.

1. If something doesn't cross statelines, it's not a federal matter.

2. truth in advertising. As long as something is correctly labeled (or advertised), then I do say caveat emptor and cave canem for that matter.

I'm down on the whole raw milk thing.

How much would it cost for you to create an FDA approved slaughterhouse? I know a guy what slaughters his own chickens and turkeys out in WV, and I don't think it costs him too much...

Removing corporate interests from things like "public safety" would be a DAMN good idea. even if I never want to drive with my seatbelt off, I don't think there needs to be a law about it!

there you go

I can agree with this.

1. If something doesn't cross statelines, it's not a federal matter.

2. truth in advertising. As long as something is correctly labeled (or advertised), then I do say caveat emptor and cave canem for that matter.

See, it shouldnt be so hard to come up with common sense approaches to the issues we face.

 

by the way....

here's a good comment by someone on another thread that sums up the deep illogical paradox within current GOP economic thinking: http://www.thenextright.com/patrick-ruffini/the-joe-the-plumberization-o...

Well . . .

Joe . . . .  That's way I don't see a 'Framework' or other definable change coming from any of the parties. Maybe AEI, CATO or Heritage could come up with something like a rating? Maybe they already have it?

I quite honestly see all of the parties as knee-jerk organizations cloaked in ideology. But how to affect policy then? It's depressing.

 

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