Obama Health Care five Years in Jail

The House of Representatives passed their Obama Health Care bill H.R. 3962 saturday night on November 7th, 2009. In it is a provision to jail anyone who does not get “acceptable health insurance coverage”. The penalty is that you are "subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years."

Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHybRZ691_g

 

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Actually, failure to carry

Actually, failure to carry health insurance carries only a tax penalty. The provision you're referencing, there, is for tax evasion--someone who doesn't carry insurance or pay their taxes are subject to those penalties.

And?

This unconstitutional mandate is okay with you?

 

Paying taxes is unconstitutional?

 

Tax evasion with no penalities is a constitutional right?

Joe the Plumber must be your Hero!

Now i begin to understand the mentality of tax day tea partiers.

Paying taxes for not buying something

While Obama is at it why doesn't he retroactivily tax people who did not have home owner insurance in New Orleans.

Modern liberalism has fallen far from the tree.

Stop being dumb...

In this country we don't pay Federal taxes for choosing not to purchase something.

 

Yes, please stop being dumb.

Car insurance is mandatory in all 50 states.

The Federal Government...

... does not mandate car insurance.  States do.  Why? Because States can.  They don't have the limits the Federal Government has.

States can mandate insurance... the Federal Government cannot.

I know its tough for Statists like you to comprehend how this works, but that's your problem.

The Federal Gorvenrment has expansive

 powers under the commerce clause. Just because you don't like the use of those laws doesn't make them unconstitutional. 

James Madison vetoed a bill for building roads and bridges because he thought it was unconstitutional; Dwight Eisenhower built the interstate highway system. My life has been vastly improved by the latter's thinking. 

The Interstate Highway System...

...is owned and operated by the individual States.  The Federal Government helps fund it but it doesn't mandate that you use it or face a fine.

You're doing intellectual gymnastics (don't worry, you're not alone) to justify this tax or fine imposed by the Federal Government under the commerce clause, but there's no Interestate commerce in Health Insurance.  You are not allowed to purchase insurance outside of your State.  Again, you are going beyond any reasonable interpretation of what does or doesn't impact interstate commerce which would determine if the Federal Government can regulate it (or tax it).  Recent rulings at the SCOTUS show that there's been a trend towards reigning in that expansive power even by the moderate on the Court (Kennedy).

I'll give you some help: You're best bet is to argue the Constitutionality based on the Welfare Clause which Progressives hijacked back in the 30's.  Stay away from the commerce clause.

But what difference does it make when the standard that

 is being applied is if RBill doesn't like it, it is unconstitutional?

Is an Individual Health Insurance Mandate Constitutional?

Again, you are going beyond any reasonable interpretation of what does or doesn't impact interstate commerce which would determine if the Federal Government can regulate it (or tax it).  Recent rulings at the SCOTUS show that there's been a trend towards reigning in that expansive power even by the moderate on the Court (Kennedy).

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/conlaw/2009/09/is-an-individual-health-...

 

>>>>>>>>>

First, an individual mandate is almost certainly the kind of economic activity that the Court would uphold under Congress's Commerce Clause authority under Raich, Lopez, and United States v. MorrisonThese cases allow Congress to regulate activities that have a "substantial effect" on interstate commerce, and they look to the commercial nature of the activity and to the connection between the activity and interstate commerce (among other considerations).  An individual mandate is almost surely commercial in nature--in requiring folks to buy health insurance, it requires a commercial exchange.  Rivkin and Casey argue that the mandate is not commercial in nature, because it's triggered simply by "being an American."  This may be true, but it misses the point of the regulation: It requires Americans to engage in a commercial exchange.  This is the definition of commerce.

Moreover, the individual mandate is closely related to interstate commerce.  The whole argument for an individual mandate is to get health care consumers to internalize their costs, and not spread them to the larger interstate economy.  A health insurance mandate is almost certainly within Congress's Commerce Clause powers, whether Congress calls it an "excise tax" or something else.

Second, Rivkin and Casey misunderstand the Taxing Power.  Congress can adopt an excise tax to an end that is within its other constitutional powers, as here.  But even if Congress is acting outside its other articulated powers, the Court has interpreted the Taxing Power quite broadly, all but eliminating any distinction between a "penalty" and revenue-producing "tax."  See United States v. Kahriger (upholding a federal tax on gambling under Congress's Taxing Power) (overturned on other grounds).

The Supreme Court may be on a path to limiting congressional authority under the Commerce Clause, the Taxing Clause, or any clause.  But even so, the individual mandate all too squarely falls within the recent and settled jurisprudence

 

Given "unconstitutional!"seems to be the new "socialism!" charge

 

against Obama, I would rather resort to your level of discourse than feel the need to display my intelligence, even given a legitimate debate about the constitutionality, ethics and economics of a health insurance mandate with or without a robust public option.

As you and I interpret constitution differently, a wide interpretation of constititution, for whatever form the actual mandates take (the final Bill hasn't been written yet; and you and i interpret the language of the bill differently too), the final word on the constitutionality(the supreme court's word, if you wish) will have to wait. I wonder what unconstitutionality you would have  found in case of a universal single payer liberal health care plan if it were on the table. Don't worry progressives and liberals will be the first to go on streets if there is a health insurance mandate without a robust public option in the final bill. I am sure the corporate republicans will love that idea. And the conservative SC judges will be inclined to interpret it as constitutional if  it were challenged.

You pay property taxes even if you don't use the public school system for your children. You pay social security taxes--your employer will be jailed if he doesn't --even if you don't want the service. Hey, let's end you to jail for not buying insurance, that will be the simplest way to get a government paid free single payer health insurance and care for you behind bars. Maybe we should increase the taxes across the board and give tax credits to those who have a health insurance. That will make it constitutional for you.

 

That's right...

You and I do interpret the Constitution differently.

I have a strict interpretation, you have a liberal one.

I can point to where the people who wrote the Constitution specifically argued against the unlimited Federal powers you seem to support.  You can point to... decisions made by Progressives who ignored what the author's of the document said and read new powers where none existed before.

I happen to think that the people who wrote the Constitution knew more about what it meant than people 150 years later who were trying to pass laws that gave them the power to do whatever the hell they wanted to instead of following the procedure laid out in the Constitution itself.

I'm not against Change.  I'm against imposing this Change at the whim of Congress instead of the way it is supposed to be done: The Amendment Process.  If you want to give Congress the power to regulate and run Health Insurance, get an amendment passed that adds that power to Article 1 Section 8.  Circumventing that process breaches the contract we have with our Government.  If that's okay with you, fine.  It's not okay with me.

Can I assume that you refuse to drive or fly

anywhere to protest the fact that the Constitution was not amended to provide for the interstate highway system or air traffic control?

Here's your test...

...explain how the Interstate Highway System and Air Traffic Control are the same as the Health Insurance mandate.

Go!

They all

 can be enacted without amending the constitution.

Let's stipulate that for now...

Beyond what you just said, how is the Health Insurance mandate the same as taxing to provide for the IHS and Air Traffic Control?

You might as well ask

 how is the Air Force like Medicare?

Strike Two...

One more dodge and you lose.

Because, as we've established, RBill sets the rules.

 Given that you just agreed that the HCR was constitutional, what is the point in continuing?

These things - interstate highways, air traffic control, Medicare, SS, the Air Force, the Louisiana Purchase, HCR, paper money - aren't like each other except for the fact that they don't require amendments to the Constitution. Therefore, your question has been answered.

You lose.

You had three chances to make your case and you chose to go the non-sequitur route.

You, sir, are nothing but a troll.

I gave you an immediate, simple and direct answer to your

 question.

"You lose" RBlll wins Joe Wilson award for Next Right discussion

When was the last time you said "you lose" on this blog? I seem to recollect another occasion where you used the same words. Just reflects your mental makeup at teenage levels.

 

They're both party of a syllogism

...that highlights tyour hypocrisy.

What do I win for answering the question correctly?