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Cap-And-Trade: Killer Of The American Dream
Hundreds of thousands of taxpayers swarmed the nation's capital Saturday to deliver a message to their elected officials: Don't turn our American Dream into a nightmare. A nightmare is exactly what America will be living if "cap and trade" legislation to reduce carbon dioxide emissions becomes law. That global warming tax would kill millions of jobs, bring an end to cheap energy and cripple the economy.
Even the Obama administration knows that taxpayers will feel the pain in their wallets -- though it admitted so only grudgingly last week after a Freedom of Information Act request by the Competitive Enterprise Institute. By the Treasury Department's estimate, Americans would pay up to $1,761 a year because of cap-and-trade.
The economically depressing facts calculated by the Heritage Foundation include more than 2 million lost jobs, $9.4 trillion in economic losses, and a jump of $829 per family for utility costs. Cap-and-trade is nothing more than a stimulus bill for high-pollution China, which will get American jobs and keep emitting carbon regardless of what America does.
The worst part of it is that the legislation is completely unnecessary. The push for cap-and-trade is driven by factually flawed fantasies of manmade global warming. Environmentalists love to tell lies about an ice-free Arctic, and senators like John Kerry, D-Mass., repeat the lies even after they have been exposed.
Al Gore mastered the scare tactics in his documentary An Inconvenient Truth -- a film so riddled with flawed science and political spin that the British High Court won't let schoolchildren watch without a warning. Unfortunately, American students are still being force fed nonsense about global warming all the time.
We expose the devastating costs of global warming hysteria in our film Not Evil Just Wrong, but Gore and Hollywood don't want America to see it. That's why we're organizing a cinematic tea party, a natural outgrowth of rallies like the one in Washington last weekend.
Our movie will premiere in homes and on campuses across the country on Oct. 18. We hope it will be the start of a long-needed resistance movement against radical environmentalism.
- noteviljustwrong's blog
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Comments
Did you copy this straight
Did you copy this straight from the Exxon/Mobile website?
DemoCrier, talk about calling the kettle black? Gheesh.
You and your farLeft fellow-trolls like Mead50 and ClassicDemocratLiberal2 and undoctored and 1/2 dozen other names that pop-up here, in a single thread usually, to butress the farLeft comments made by another version of their name (yep, trolls from the Left have a well documented penchant for duplicity and multiple postings to make a thread look like their personal echo chamber)... but for you to claim others are merely posting talking points is the ultimate in hypocrisy. For you guys, it's standard operating procedure.
Is climate change real? We thought so until last week when the UN's chief scientist responsible for coordinating the climate change scare campaign came out and postulated that reviewed evidence now suggests the solar flares on our Sun may mute or temper all of man's adverse contribution to "global warming"... uuuh-oh, time to change the tune or the dial in another station, eh AlGore? Will a quiet sun translate into global cooling? Who knows... but watching the activists scramble to deal with another blow to their "unimpeachable science" nonsense is a lot of fun.
The simple, inescapable truth is that all the "fixes" that far Left Democrats want to foist upon a struggling American economy involve diverting scarce resources, talent and capital from productive uses and into wildly expensive, undocumented "remedies" that carry their own enviromental hazards... like with wind turbines spoiling the Gt Lks lakeshort and driving away tourists... or ethanol production that costs more to transport --let alone produce-- than saves at the gas pump... etc.
Sorry, but like with ObamaCare, the cap & trade "fixes" will cripple the American economy and just like with ObamaCare, kill the patient (in the latest case, the economy) everyone was supposed to be saving.
Americans don't think cap & trade and carbon emissions are a priority for this Administration. Citizens, well informed, in 11 countries whose govt is pro-Kyoto Treaty, don't think global warming is important enough to sacrafice even on small scale items like daily living patterns.
This is all about the far Left preachers pushing their far Left program up into America's ass. And just like ObamaCare, the fix is a lot worse than simply doing no harm.
Reality based?
This blog seeks to distinguish itself from other political blogs partly be being "reality based". The present post is a step in the wrong direction. Global warming denial by now is laughed out of serious scientific discussions. But even the small things are wrong. To wit, there were at most about seventy thousand people in Washington on 9/12, not "hundreds of thousands".
Oh yeah IGM, just like NASA and Wired magazine put it...
Just when the far Left thought it had won the argument, science and reality get in the way... again. Damn that pesky Sun.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/05/solarcycle/
I don't understand your argument
I'm sorry - I don't understand how this Wired article relates to Igm's comment. Also, it is not clear what the idea coming from the "far Left" is that you are referring to.
Frank_T, if I thought your question & confusion were real...
I'd spend some time explaining it to you... but the question isn't serious and your confusion is pure fakery on your part, bud.
igm, yet another farLeft troll on this site, offered this nonsense: "Global warming denial by now is laughed out of serious scientific discussions"... except of the leading scientists at NASA and the UN who now have to explain why the cycle of solar flares may be leading to a long period of global cooling and retreat from the "science" behind man-made global warming.
As if you didn't know? Yeah, right.
And just for igm and the record, I was in DC on the Mall on the afternoon of 9/12 and there were hundreds of thousands of people there... and very little counter protest from the Obama FarLeft activists and union goons. Even the usually pro-Obama British DailyMail said it was closer to a million.
The money quote: "As many as one million people flooded into Washington for a massive rally organised by conservatives claiming that President Obama is driving America towards socialism. The size of the crowd - by far the biggest protest since the president took office in January - shocked the White House. Demonstrators massed outside Capitol Hill after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue waving placards and chanting 'Enough, enough'."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html
So Frank_T, you can end your faked "confusion" and uncertainty... the science that the farLeft thought was so bloody indisputable before the recently discovered change in solar flare activity isn't so indisputable and the "few people" who showed up on 9/12 were really in the hundred of thousands and that SCARED the Obama White House royally.
So much so, he's been on almost every media outlet trying to quell the insurrection against his Reign and Rule.
sourcing
Crowd estimates come from local law enforcement. They say fifty to seventy thousand. A guy in the crowd would not be able to make a reliable estimate by just looking around. The Daily Mail article, you will notice, had no sourcing for their higher estimate. The source seems to be an "irrationally exuberant" right wing blogger -- Michelle Malkin.
The same goes for global warming. Climate scientists monitor atmospheric conditions constantly. They work their hearts out looking for better ways to analyse data and predict. If a significant fraction of them, say more than one (Linzen) started to doubt global warming, we would hear about it.
igm, you need to get a course in Lying 101 like Obama did
Wrong. Since the controversy over the crowd estimate for the Less than 1 Milllion Man March in 1994, the Park Police decided in '97 to stop making crowd estimates. The DC Police also have a policy of staying out of the crowd estimating business, as well as the DC Fire Dept --who have a legitimate responsibility to monitor crowd size in my opinion.
Wrong. Doug Powers, who was covering the largest Tea Party event to date from DC Police HdQtrs said that 'uncomfirmed reports are that the DC Police are estimating the crowd at 1.2 million and growing" and that was at 1:30PM.
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/dc-police-912-protest-crowd-estimated.html
Whether or not the DC Fire Dept/EMS, Public Safety or Police got it right or wrong, igm... there are sources other than the Daily Mail --which might have been using the organizer's misquoted numbers alledged by ABC News.
But because of the timing of press deadlines, you are clearly wrong (sigh) in stating that Michele Malkin's wonderfully witty and brilliantly pithy site was the source for the Daily Mail.
The distraction you want to continue is over whether or not the Tea Party crowd on 9-12 was significant demonstration or not. It was so significant and the Obama White House knew it would be that they left town, hit the campaign trail for Obama and ran to Minnesota for a counter event. Having been there, I'm inclined to judge it at about 1m or more. How can I do that? I've been at all three Bush inaugurals, Reagan's, some anti-war protests, some Liberty rallies, the Million Mom March and more than a dozen July 4th Mall Celebrations. I know the Mall well. I know crowds in the Mall better. And I know guys like you will continue to try to minimize the significance of the event by lying about crowd estimates, who does the estimating and so forth.
Obama left town because his handlers feared protests outside the WH. They ran to Minnesota --land of Al Franken and falling bridges. They lost in the public attention gambit. Just like the Obama team is losing on health care reform, taking over the insurance industry, global warming and bringing that much-needed Hope for bipartisan Change to Washington.
JakeMountain1's take on veracity
HAH! So, for future reference, I can use any factoid I find in any paper to "prove" my point, even if that factoid has been thoroughly discredited, repeatedly?
In case you missed it or need to overlook it...
you've been solidly, repeatedly bitch-slapped down Mead50. On this point and on dozens of other policy issues here. Do we need a recap?
And here we have macho posturing
I wonder why? What are you compensating for?
macho posturing?
Is that the newly approved tack by NancyBoTox for dismissing opponents of ObamaCare's War on Medicine? You guys aren't supposed to call them racists? Angry white men? Fringe FoxNews watchers? It's macho posturing now? LOL!
I don't think you grew up with a male role model in your life, Mead50, if you think being bitch-slapped is macho posturing. Otherwise, you'd know about a real man's obligation to stand up, put down the talking points, think for himself and speak truth to your lying on this site.
The thread was about cap & trade's capacity to kill off the American dream... your position is as wrong on this policy as it has been on ObamaCare, or the "value" of Canadian medicine even tho Canadians flock to America to secure emergency health care, or the real reason why Cash4Clunkers was shut down, or the important work remaining in Iraq and Afghanistan... and on and on.
Bitch-slapped isn't macho posturing. It's simply pointing out the truth --you and your pals are on the losing end of these policy debates... with the public, with independent voters, with non-Democrat Party leaders in DC... the only ones who still believe your policy doublespeak are the UN internationalists.
How sad. How pathetic. It'll take Iran's nuclear option to bring the Islamic terror state to it's knees; it'll take the Democrats using the Senate nuclear option to get ObamaCare out of the Senate. If that happens, cap & trade will never see the light of day.
Unless, as some in the Obama WH have intimiated they're currently working on a plan that would put most of ObamaCare & other policy initiatives into place using rules and EOs. Good bye US Constitution.
Actually, this thread, which YOU started
Actually, this thread, which you started about 5 posts ago, is about your inability to understand science, or to count. I guess the two go hand in hand. It then degenerated into your usuall stance of hostile bluster when you were confronted with some facts you couldn't handle.
I'm sure Jake can handle your nonsense...
But for the record, Mead50, you've been wrong on this site so often lately --and when clearly caught by a shot between the eyes like Jake Mountain has done well here on the non-issue of global warming, the unimportant ranking of this issue by Americans and other 1st world countries (many of whom have out-of-touch leadership that pushed through a Kyoto Accord signing only to find the citizens unwilling to do anything even symbolic to support the myth of global warming)... and now to have scientists have to face the simple fact that the solar cycle is likely going to lead to GLOBAL COOLING... I don't think Jake or the sceptics have it wrong... the problem is with die-hard partisans like you who can't accept truth, facts, or reality. Of course, you'd like to project that trait onto them... but the problem is with you, not them.
It isn't about facts or truth for you... it's all about repeating the tired, lame farLeft Daily Kossack and Democrat Underground talking points and hoping, like that perfect troll peer of your's, NMDem, to get a rise out of someone... anyone... begging and pleading when his & your outrageous nonsense is ignored.
I think you're still pretty sore about losing the debate about whether or not public health practice doctors support a public option (which they don't in an overwhelming number -91%). And I think you're still sore about losing the debate over whether or not Tom Ridge actually accused Bush Administration officials of raising the terror alert level pre-GE2004... because your side is still stuck on "Al Gore didn't lose, Bush stole the election" and "Kerry was the better candidate and should have won".
Sour grapes is a dish you often serve, Mead50. You should be eating crow.
Math 101
The New England Journal of Medicine survey of 2,000 doctors.
62.9% + 27.3% = 73.5% support the public option in one form or another.
I can't imagine what you think you achieve by repeating the same ridiculous falsehood over and over again. But every time you do I'm happy to repeat the real data.
The accusation is not that they raised the terror alert, but that they wanted to raise to the terror alert for political purposes, and Ridge and his team had to intervene to keep it from happening, and that Ridge was so disgusted by the whole experience that he resigned right after the election. In his own words, from his book:
Again, I can't imagine what you think you achieve by repeating the same ridiculous falsehood over and over again. But every time you do I'm happy to repeat the real data.
Mead50, you've lost this argument three times now...
in other threads here and your entire chattering cabal of farLeft repeaters have lost the argument up and down the length of the Internet.
The public health survey you cite found that only 9.7% of all respondents supported the public option as described by ObamaCare advocates. The remaining overwhelming majority of respondents found that private medical insurance was more desirable... the real problem you can't beat is that a growing plurality of Americans don't want the socialistic, welfare-state styled public option no matter what Obama does... in fact, the more he talks, the larger the opposition grows!
Your math isn't in error, Mead50.
What's in error is your blinded perspective to engage reality. Just like when you've argued that Canadian health care is superior to American and someone made a point about how hundred of thousands of Canadians flee their country for American medical care.
Your math isn't the problem with you, Mead50. It's your spin and lack of objectivity.
And then there is the real world.
For this to be true it would have to be the case that the healthcare reform being proposed consists of eliminating all private insurance and replacing it with public insurance. Which is, of course, not what is being proposed.
Jake, Mead 50 can't think on his own --it's fruitless with him.
Only in Mead 50's world can 100% minus 9.7% end up being something other than 90-91%.
Of course, the real number he'd like you to forget is that the majority of Americans don't want ObamaCare and that number grows each week and in direct opposite proportion to the number of speeches Obama gives on the subject.
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthplan.php?xml=http://www.pollster.com/flashcharts/content/xml/HealthCare.xml&choices=Oppose,Favor&phone=&ivr=&internet=&mail=&smoothing=&from_date=&to_date=&min_pct=&max_pct=&grid=&points=&trends=&lines=
His far Left anarchists in the Democrat Party are ready to tar & feather him and ride him out of DC on a rail, his Blue Dawg Democrats want him to stop the ride and let them get off, his Senate Democrat leaders want him to stop meddling in the important work of the Senate, and NancyBoToxPelosi is left trying to find the right shade of lipstick to mimic her President's new Joker smile. The only ones happy in DC are the crooked trial lawyers who still see green in ObamaCare.
I guess in Mead 50's world it is far, far better to ignore reality than have to be accountable to it.
I see where you are coming
I see where you are coming from now, Jake. Thanks for your reply. Actually, the article states that the average solar cycle length is 11 years, which is far shorter than the time scale for climate change.
I like this blog, but....
I can hear what you are saying about the Cap and Trade issues, and don't necessarily disagree, but when you say Global Warming is a fantasy.... that seriously hurts your credibility. 99% of all climatologists believe that global warming is happening. They are the experts. I have to trust the sceince on this one. Especially when saying that global warming isn't happening is so lucrative now.
And after making the "fantasy" statement, you say hundreds of thousans of people were at the 9/12 march. Now THAT is a fantasy.
Please go back to commenting on the issues in your insightful and very helpful ways. I do really like this blog. I'm hoping this post is just a lapse in judgement soon to be corrected.
Cap and trade... hmm... lemme see...
Oh yeah, that's right. This is the American Dream Killing Idea that Newt Gingrich was all excited about promoting - before he was against it, that is.
Pathetic. I agree with the other commenters on the downward slide of this blog. Just pathetic.
Wow dean2... sort of sounding like ClassicLiberal2?
Then maybe you can answer this simple question, "dean2"... Why do you keep coming here under half a dozen other names? Isn't that the real pathetic story?
Of course, in order to answer, you'll need to remember the fake email address you used to create yet another name to post under.
And you think people here are pathetic? Wow. Stunningly stupid observation to make about yourself.
Unfortunately for you, you're mistaken, JakeMountain1...
There's only one of me. I have no fake names or aliases on this or any other site I frequent. I tried to go simply by "dean" but that name was taken, so I went with "dean2". I never attempted to make up any sort of fake name (like JakeMountain1, perhaps - hard to tell), instead going with what was available. I have no fear of identifying myself for anything I'm posting because I stand by my words and back it up with citation as needed.
For the record, my name is Dean Lambrecht, and I'm from Minneapolis, MN. Feel free to look me up, or join my facebook debates or find me on taperssection.com or anything of the sort. I'll engage you in rational debate anywhere you prefer as long as you actually debate reasonably, and don't just repeat Fox News talking points, like so many of the tired "conservative" on this site and others have sunk to.
And ultimately yes, it's pathetic that you had to imagine something about me that's completely untrue. And sadly I think it's indicative of too many of the "conservative" commenters on this site. And overall I do think this site has sunk a great deal from its beginnings. I see a lot fewer Ruffini posts, for instance. And I think the quality of the posts has gone down as I've seen the repetition of already-dispelled mistruths and distortions, and the assertions of ideas without any underlying evidence. I really hoped this site would help begin a regeneration for a failed movement - a movement that I think is important for the health of the country (i.e., while I'm generally a liberal, I also agree that liberalism unbound, just like conservatism unbound, isn't at all beneficial over the long term). And I still hope it does regenerate the movement - I want a robust, intelligent, values and fact-based opposition. I just haven't seen it going that way. The Cap and Trade: Killer of the American Dream post is a perfect example of that.
Amazing
There's this amazing new technology called "The DVD".
I'm told entire movies can be put on them. I guess what you're saying is Al Gore bought every DVD player in the world and he's keeping them hostage so people can't see your movie. How henious!
And since Al invented the internet I guess he' shut that down too.
Or it could be that so-called conservative entertainment commits a sin worse that being wrong and ignorant of the facts. It's boring.
I like Cap and Trade
I like Cap and Trade. I remember reading Car and Driver, and Road and Track magazines when I was in college in the 1980's. In one article I remember an automotive engineer (that is a person who designs the mechanical aspects of cars) said the driving force of innovation in the auto field was the need to clean up smog causing auto emissions. That is what, according to him, lead to better performing cars. So, I support Cap and Trade in the historically based belief that it will save money in the long run by inspiring technological innovation.
Sensationalist article
At first glance, this article looks to me to come from the kooky global warming denialist fringe. However, upon closer examination, it is apparent that the article does not explicitly take a denialist position. It does not deny that global warming is happening or that it is likely caused by human activities (which is good, because denying these things would put the article outside of the scientific mainstream). Rather, the article appears to warn against the effects of exaggeration and misrepresentation of the facts on the part of environmentalists (which most people will agree happens sometimes).
What makes this article appear kooky, however, is the use of some overly strong and exaggerated language:
"factually flawed fantasies of manmade global warming," "Environmentalists love to tell lies," "repeat the lies even after they have been exposed," "Al Gore mastered the scare tactics," "American students are still being force fed nonsense about global warming," "the devastating costs of global warming hysteria."
By using this exaggerated, sensationalist language, this piece appears to be guilty of what it is accusing the environmentalists of. This piece will not appeal to moderates and independents, and perhaps not anyone with a sense of intellectual integrity.
Let's try your method of operation, Frank_T...
I don't understand what you meant when you characterized any scientist who disagrees with the prevalent farLeft "science" activist community as being 'kooky" or "denialist" or "fringe". Were you just trying hard to minimize their contribution to redirecting the debate by calling them names, Frank_T (or whomever you are this week, in this thread).
Oh wait, is this like what Obama and his far Left Democrat fringe are doing with real Americans and patriots who are taking to the streets to oppose his mandated rush to the Left? His takeover of GM? His takeover of banks? His takeover of the medical insurance industry? His War on Medicine? His antagonistic approach to American allies in Europe?
Call 'em names, call 'em crackpots, call 'em professional agitators? Have your surrogates call them "racists"? "Nazis"? "far Right fringe"? "angry white men"?
I guess your kind of outrageously inflamatory language only tells the truth and tosses the cool, refreshing effect of informed rhetoric on those hotheads? Yeah, right Frank_T... why don't you go back to being whomever you used to be before you found it necessary to post under yet another name in this thread?
Of course there are some
Of course there are some scientists who have doubts about some aspects of global warming (as with any area of science). These people are not necessarily kooks. Also, it is a free country and I respect your right to believe what you want. But to deny that anthropogenic global warming is mainstream, legitimate science is rather kooky. Check out the statements of these institutions and scientific societies:
These are not weird fringe groups. These represent the mainstream scientific establishment in North America. Denialists that proclaim that these societies are part of some vast evil conspiracy are indeed quite kooky.
Also, the science is not a right-left issue - it is apolitcal. What to DO (or what not to do) about global warming is inherently politcal, but the fundamental scientific issues are not. If you are against curbing emmissions, etc., you can certainly construct a rational argument for that position. But the belief that the major scientific organizations of the world are part of some vast evil conspiracy is a paranoid fantasy.
The Heritage Foundation?
Never mind killing your credibility by denying climate change. To cite to anything issued by the freakin' Heritage Foundation as any sort of authority is the kill pill for your ideas to anyone with an objective bone in their body. The Heritage Foundation? Why not cite something by the John Birch Society or some eco-terrorist gang?
I do agree with the view of
I do agree with the view of this author on cap and trade, global warming, and increased energy costs for all Americans. Most people in this country have now figured out that all this stuff is baloney. It's only mission is to confiscate money to justify grants and research. The average American is catching on to these hoaxes and now many citizens are speaking out through various venues. Congress would do well to listen. casino online