First Debate Thoughts

Most of my instant reaction was on Twitter, but here are some thoughts in no particular order:

  • McCain did very well in keeping the debate on his own ground. Notice how long we were discussing the surge and earmarks. This is a strategy he perfected in the primaries, and it's what enabled him to win the nomination -- because the Republican base disagreed with him on everything else. He is a very insistent debater, and controlled the flow and subject matter.
  • McCain schooled Obama on the later non-Iraq foreign policy questions, particularly on Georgia. To the extent this wasn't covered by the snap polling since it occurred later in the debate, this should be to McCain's benefit in polling the next 24-48 hours.
  • The pundit class seems to agree this one was a draw.  There will be no rush to declare one man the winner like there was after the first 2004 debate. Kerry won the snap polls the night of the debate, but was winning 3-to-1 a few days later when asked who won. This made a 3-4 point difference in the polls.
  • Obama is walking a fine line between professorial/detached and Zen-like/Presidential. You never know when he is going to slip into either mode. Debates are weird that way. They can turn liabilities into strengths and vice versa. 
  • Obama pronounces it Pah-kii-stan.
  • Obama seems to have a major burr under his blanket when it comes to free markets and regulation. In both this debate and his acceptance speech, he seemed to go to great lengths to make a philosophical case for activist government. This inspires me to work even harder against him.
  • McCain looked like a leader in calling for a freeze in government spending. Obama's line about using a scalpel not a hatchet reeked of rearranging the deck chairs, and thinking you can have your cake and eat it too in the middle of a major financial emergency. One of McCain's major calling cards is service and sacrifice. In this way, Obama would be like Bush who didn't ask us to sacrifice after 9/11.
  • Was Henry Kissinger the gaffe of the evening?

 

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Comments

Soldier's Bracelet

How about the fact that Obama had to jump in and say,  "I've got a bracelet too".  Which I think trivializes the whole thing.   But the real gaffe came in the next words out of Obama's mouth, "From, Sergeant, uh, uh, from the mother of, uh, Sergeant, Ryan David Jopek."  All this while looking down at the bracelet to remember the name of the soldier he was honoring.

This week Obama repeatedly alledged, and the MSM repeated, McCain returned to DC to perform the job for which he currently holds as a political stunt.  Yet not one person noticed Obama gaffe and his subsequent politicization of the death of an American soldier.  Please.

 

Obama pronounces it Pah-kii-stan.

So do the Pakistani's - there's a link to it's native pronouncement on the Pakistan Wikipedia page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan

I guess you'd object if he didn't pronounce the capital of Scotland as Ed-in-berg?

 

Whatever dude!

He blew the proper pronunciation of the Crimean port city of Sevastopol as well.  That is just silly.  His might be the correct pronunication of Pakistan but to me that came across as totally pretentious, which along his Clintonesque debate smug, made him seem very eltist and condescending. 

To you

Not to others. Which is why Obama won last night.

Yes, in your leftist fantasyland he won.

But in reality he did very mediocre job.  Hell, when your backtracking and trying to redefine the meaning of the term "meeting without preconditions" you definitely aren't winning the debate.  But I'm sure the Obama-media's propaganda will be very reassuring to you, so you don't have to face reality.

Not my opinion

Polls and focus groups.

The opinions of propagandists

These polls and focus groups of which you unable to cite are meaningless and proof of nothing.

Still in the denial stage, huh?

Hurry up, not too many days left to accept reality.

Seriously?

Why are you still here? You have no argument that is backed with facts or you'd be citing them (and pointing folks to liberal leftist sites is so not gonna do it) and frankly, it feels a bit desperate to come to a serious blog site for intelligent people and cry on every blog  "nuh - uh, my candidate will win, neener neener." TMZ is waiting for your type of commentary. Go get em gabriel. 

I already made the points

Both polls and focus groups show that Obama won last night. it's not perfect information but it's the only objective information we have today.

 

Of course things can change but as we get coser to the election the chances of that happening become smaller.

 

Thank you for being polite

While I don't agree - and am not trying to debate who won the debate - I can thank you for not responding with snarky comments this time.  

I admit

I sometimes fall too rapidly into sanrky comments. Doesn't help anyone though.

In any case my interest is not in being a troll or disrupting a comments board. I am an Obama voter but I am to the right of most people at Kos. I tend to vote Democrats more than Republicans but that can change.

My only point here is that whatever our personal opinions of who won or who lost the only (politically) relevant issue is if it had any impact on voting intentions. Based on available data today it seems Obama got the better of this.

Personally I thought it was a draw where both had pros and cons but also both managed to make clear their different views. People can then vote accordingly.

Finally you posted something that I agree with

Neither won that debate.  It was actually as I expected. 

I think the point Patrick is trying to make...

...is that Middle America pronounces it Pack-i-stan.   University elitists, citizens of the world community,  pronounce it as you mentioned.  McCain is at least trying to speak to Middle America whereas Obama is talking down to them. 

At least thats my take on what Patrick is trying to say.  Thats how I took it.  Also as an aside here, Pack-i-stani Americans, I'm sure, would overlook McCains down-home pronunciation after hearing that he wouldn't want to attack their former homeland.  I'm sure McCain must've picked up support amongst that  PakAm voting block.  I would think.  Whats your take?  DD

That's not a good....

way to pronounce it.

Pronouncing it Pack-i-stan is far too similar to the racist phrase "Paki"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=paki

Criticising for someone for not making the same mistake that ignorant people make is just silly.

 

speaking of ignorant people...

...that certainly describes the people that are running the Pakistani government right now.  A government and people that have lost almost complete control of their nation with large segments completely under control of terrorists.  Its astounding and tragic how low that nation has descended.  Almost a complete departure from reality.  And, of course, they're paying a high price as evidenced by the recent Marriot bombing.  DD

It's really impossible for partisans

of either side to realistically assess the debate.

 

 

Obama won

simply because the McCain campaign has been trashing him for so long as a know-nothing, a lightweight, and a naïve bungler in foreign policy that the bar was set ridiculously low.

Obama FAR surpassed all expectations on foreign policy, and therefore wins this debate.

At a time when the McCain campaign has been seeing small but steady deterioration of support, especially among the women Sarah Palin engaged, McCain needed to come across as wise, steady, and reassuring.

Instead, he never looked at Obama, he never looked into the camera at the American people, and except for the ending comments when he told Veterans he loved them and would take care of them, (lies) never really connected.

He was a crotchety old man most of the night, dismissive, lecturing, condescending, and looked just plain mean and cranky, like the old man who tells you to get your goddamn dog off his lawn.

Why are you here?

Jim Dandy, you are not here to the rescue, you are here trolling. Go spew your venom on your favorite leftist sites. You clearly watched the debate through your rose colored lenses, the same ones O-bah-mah has been wearing.

Polls show you are wrong

and Jim Dandy is right.

Sorry.

I guess when I don't drink your Kool-aid I can't see what you...

guys see.  Because McCain defintely spoke to the audience during the debate.

Correct

We all have our views. That's why partisans make such lousy analysts.

 

pronunciation

I kinda like the "pah kii stawn" thing?

Now is he also going to say "Paree" and "Af hawniistawn" and "Bei zhhhing"?

This does sort of box him in

to correct pronounciations from now on, doesn't it?  Did anyone else notice how he dropped his phony Southern accent and was completely able to fully pronounce the letter "y" as "ee" instead of the colloquial "eh" or "uh" during the debate?  For example, he said "funtamentall-ee" instead of "fundamentall-eh". 

"Pahkistahn" is pronounced by Obama the same way that Christiane Amanpour pronounces it on CNN, which is probably the source Obama goes to most often for news along with MSNBC.  On the other hand, Christiane has the British accent which makes that pronounciation authentic rather than affected.

I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's trying to be respectully multicultural by using this particular pronounciation.  On the other hand, by adopting a fake Southern accent during his rallies as opposed to his podium speaches, is he being "respectfully regional", or is he just pandering to people who commonly use that type of colloquial speech pattern so as to garner their identification with him?  Since he made a speech in Marin County indcating a certain disdain for some rural folks and their folkways, this type of accent could even be seen by some as actually mocking certain groups. 

I interpret his speech affectations as being merely politically expedient. 

factcheck.org

Reading your posts is like Obama never gets anything right, and the opposite for McCain. Check factcheck.org on the debate, they both make mistakes.

McCain Did Excellent

It certainly wasn't a blowout, but McCain won this debate.  Everyone had such high expectations for Obama, but he didn't deliver.  That in of itself is a victory for McCain, he beat the expectation game.

This debate will help McCain much more than Obama, because one of the major themes the Obama Campaign/MSM likes to push is is that McCain is too old and out of touch to be President.  They would have you believe he belongs in a nursing home.  That's going to be a hard myth to keep pushing when the 72 year old Mccain kept Obama on his toes the whole debate, and in my opinion, beat him.

As an aside, it sure is nice having a Republican that can actually hold his own in a debate (unlike Bush).

Update to Phillip Berg, Esq. Lawsuit Against Barack Obama & DNC

UPDATE TO MR. PHILLIP BERG’S LAWSUIT AGAINST BARACK OBAMA BASED ON OBAMA’S INELIGIBILITY ON HIS CANDIDACY AS REGARDS THE REQUIREMENTS OF NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Partial excerpt from an email I sent Mr. Berg:

“I trust the judge did not originally dismiss your lawsuit because it does indeed have merit. We, as Americans, in order to fulfill the intent and directive of our Constitution are bound by patriotic duty to determine the legal status of any citizen running for the Presidency of the United States; such determination of status having to do with a requirement that said citizen must be a natural born citizen. Mr. Obama should be required to present pertinent evidence that would allow a judge or qualified public official to determine if he is, or is not, a natural born citizen. It is a legal requirement.”

Mr. Berg sent this copy of Mr. Obama’s and the DNC’s response.

Update: http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=66

It appears that Mr. Obama is trying to stall the matter. The outstanding issue is Mr. Obama’s birth certificate (Certificate of Live Birth). It appears that so far he has obfuscated this issue as well by providing, or having his agents provide, a false certificate of birth for publication.

But to Mr. Obama’s determent, the people of the United States of America demand that he (Mr. Obama) remove himself from eligibility to run for any political office for which he is not qualified and/or for which he (Mr. Obama) will not publicly present authoritative qualification for his candidacy as required by the Constitution of the United States of America.

God bless.

Interesting Take

I found a couple of your points especially interesting:

"Obama seems to have a major burr under his blanket when it comes to free markets and regulation. In both this debate and his acceptance speech, he seemed to go to great lengths to make a philosophical case for activist government. This inspires me to work even harder against him."

I find it strange that anyone could still be for Laissez Faire economics given the current mess we're in. I'm not a fan of the bailout (I bought a house I could afford at the height of the market and paid my bills as its value sank - no one's more pissed than me right now) but capitalism always runs amok given enough time. It requires soft management by a nonprofit entity to set the bumpers (i.e., regulation).

"McCain looked like a leader in calling for a freeze in government spending. Obama's line about using a scalpel not a hatchet reeked of rearranging the deck chairs, and thinking you can have your cake and eat it too in the middle of a major financial emergency. One of McCain's major calling cards is service and sacrifice. In this way, Obama would be like Bush who didn't ask us to sacrifice after 9/11."

You don't freeze spending in an economic downturn, you increase it on domestic programs. No, not welfare programs. Things like the NIH, DOT, DOE. Things that put people to work and improve overall standard of living. You pay for it by cutting military spending. Why DOD? Because we outspend the next ten countries combined, so there's more than a little room there.

I also found the idea of "sacrificing" to a better place laughable. This isn't like cutting taxes when going to war, or telling people to go shopping instead of kicking their foreign oil habit. This is like asking the market to dig itself out of the Great Depression. Oh, wait, we tried that. Thank God we replaced Hoover with FDR before all was lost.

Importance of debates overstated...

...both candidates are running conventional/traditional style campaigns and in that context, the debate appears, in the minds of those involved, to be extremely important.  But in the minds of the average American - much less significant.  The debates have become more of a beauty pageant for the benefit of the msm.  Both candidates did what they had to do - avoid major blunders/gaffes, mistakes.  The result was  a lack of any real dynamic. 

Not that they shouldn't be congratulated.  I actually feel McCain won.  He appeared very comfortable and projected a certain warmth.   Obama did well, however, he allowed his real "reactionary" inner self to surface several times. Visibly.  That will hurt  him among mature voters.   

Enjoy it all while you can.  The era of the traditional/conventional political campaigns is waning, in my opinion.  Make way for era of "renegade campaigning" and "guerilla politics".  Yee Haahh!   Darvin Dowdy   

The test of a man lies in his daily life

I don't give a care about the debate, other than to see McCain point out how inept Obama really is. He's not telling me anything new in a debate - and I don't really expect it. However, I do care about how these future world powers lead their daily lives. The fact that McCain went back to work hours before his first debate v Obama shows me that he puts work before personal ambition, even if McCains ambition is to work for the people. The only way Obama can reach out and touch his followers (yes, pun intended) is to wax on during a canned speech. What's the saying "those who can... do,  those who cannot... preach".