The Left's Tenacious Advocacy for a Public Option

If the public option passes in some form, thank the liberal blogosphere who put pressure on Democratic members of Congress to publicly threaten to derail health care reform if it wasn't included in the final bill.

The specter of Democrats reverse-filibustering their own President's plan is what has kept the public option alive, even if one could argue that "alive" is akin to a persistent vegetative state.

Contrast this to yes-man approach of the Congressional GOP in the early Bush years, and I personally find a lot to like about the Democratic model of the Congressional party serving as a sort of whip against the political expediency that will be the norm in any White House.

In 2005, I thought it would have been a good idea for conservative Republican members to publicly threaten to oppose any Social Security bill that did not include private accounts. There were multiple problems with this, not the least of which that the Congressional leadership was too spineless to bring a bill out of committee. But another was that conservatives in the House and Senate, with no strategic prodding or muscle in the blogosphere and the activist groups, never made the threat that would have rendered a "compromise" bill dead on arrival.

How groups like Open Left and the Progressive Change Campaign Committee are taking on the role of legislative strategy is very smart, and something we can learn from. How the right has fueled the tea party movement to feed into a sense of backlash in the country about the left's total control of government is also very smart, and may have the last laugh in 2010, but will it be enough to deal with the immediate task at hand, derailing a government takeover of health care? I'm not so sure.

Of course, this could all blow up in their faces. Having destroyed any possiblity of compromise, or at least defined "compromise" as something very, very close to an absolutist-left position on health care, the left-blogosphere has ensured that the only alternative to doing nothing at all is a very leftist final bill. And if that's the choice, doing nothing becomes a much, much more palatable option for the Blue Dogs. I'm personally unsure as to how they thread the needle of getting a public option passed with 60 votes.  

Still, it's valuable to understand what the left is doing and how it differs from the Congressional GOP "roll over" strategy on White House initiatives in the Bush years, in which we either actively collaborated on bad bills (Medicare Part D) or didn't make a serious push to make the good bills (tax cuts, Social Security) even stronger.

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"a very leftist final bill."

Ummmmm, That would be single payer, you know, like Medicare?

 

Or how about government run, you know, like the VA system?

 

The "public option" is NOT 'very leftist'!

 

Cheers.

Correct

Correct, and that goes to something Patrick got very wrong:

Having destroyed any possiblity of compromise, or at least defined "compromise" as something very, very close to an absolutist-left position on health care, the left-blogosphere has ensured that the only alternative to doing nothing at all is a very leftist final bill.

The "left"--along with about 60% of the public--favors single-payer, and has for years. The Obama administration began the health care debate with a massive compromise--he immediately took single-payer off the table, and opted for an industry-friendly plan that not only preserves a failed private insurance industry, but pumps new life into it. As usual, he demanded nothing from the other side for this (and got nothing), and since then, he's done nothing BUT compromise, compromise, compromise, and unilaterally, at that. He switched sides on mandating coverage. He even began backing away from the public option some months ago (one of the only genuine reform elements in any of the plans). He says he "prefers" it, but persistently talks it down, and refuses to lobby for it, while talking up the industry-written right-wing "Baucus bill," intended to beat back any real reform. So lost is he in his beloved "bipartisanship" that he has all but said the vote of a single Republican (Olympia Snowe) is more important than that of his base, that of the public, or, indeed, of getting a good bill at all. He has Harry Reid playing a ridiculous game, straddling the issue (they're almost to the point of talking about it--good to know, Harry) while trying to exclude public option advocates (Tom Harkin, strong public option advocate and chairman of the relevant committee, is out, while the vile Chris Dodd is in as its "advocate").

The notion that the liberals have been "absolutist" and have resisted any compromise is a tale from a parallel universe. They've given and given and given. The threat of revolt that saved the public option--and, with 52 Senators ready to support it, I think it has been saved--wasn't any sort of pursuit of "absolutism." It was an effort to salvage something from a stalled and failing reform effort, and a President who seemed to want to give away the store for nothing.

Like the junky, failed, rationing NHS they have in the UK

.. that kind of mind-blowingly counterproducive, backwards, 20th century socialist clap-trap that failed before and failed again .... *THAT* kind of 'single-payer'

Keep your hands off my healthcare you socialist morons!

Support for this nonsense, and its trillion dollar tax increases, mandates on businesses up the wazoo, killing jobs and hurting hiring, and incipient rationing, its all very leftist or very stupid ... or both.

.. that kind of

.. that kind of mind-blowingly counterproducive, backwards, 20th century socialist clap-trap that failed before and failed again .... *THAT* kind of 'single-payer'

The UK (which, ihn fact, gets much better health care results than the U.S.) doesn't have single payer. The government, there, runs the entire system. Owns the hospitals, employs the doctors, the whole schlemiel. No one has ever even proposed the U.S. adopt such an approach, which renders your comments of no relevance whatsoever.

Conservative calls to dismantle Medicare and VA system?

I haven't heard any.  You make a good point in noting that nothing in the Baucus bill or the tweaks being discussed to include something with a vague whiff of a public option in a Senate bill even approaches the 'leftism' of Medicare and VA.

Why does the GOP hate our veterans and seniors?  They have heartlessly abandoned them to lefist healthcare.  Michael Steele is even telling the seniors they have a 'right' to that awful leftist coverage -- don't they deserve better?

You might want to check your counter arguments

The VA system is not exactly what you want to tell the public you want for a "public option".

See ... EVERY SINGLE DOCTOR in the VA system is a government employee.  So to use the VA system as an example would be to state that your vision of a health care system would be England's.  No private Doctors.  All Doctors are hereby drafted as government employees.

Medicare?  Also not what you talk about as a public option.  And medicare is running so welll that how the CBO and Congress want to pay for ObamaCare is by saving almost 1/4 of a Trillion dollars in WASTE?!?

And you want to use Medicare as an example? 1/4 of a trillion dollars in WASTE needs to be saved to pay for other things?  Sheesh.

My comment was

My comment was tongue-in-cheek.  Patrick Ruffini asserted that the Senate could potentially pass a "very leftist final bill" to please the radical left.  That is nonsense. 

As the first commenter pointed out, the VA system and Medicare, being socialized and a single-payer system respectively, are far more "leftitst" than anything the radical left could hope to see emerge from the Senate this fall. 

Yet, oddly, no one in the GOP denounces either VA or Medicare as "leftist" because they know it would not win them any friends among the voters.  They know those are popular with almost all of the electorate.  This is where they find themselves between a rock and a hard place, spouting nonsense about the potential of a 'leftist' solution to health care, while they blithely ignore (and hope you ignore) the extremely popular and far more leftist systems already in place.

Given the concerns you expressed about the VA and Medicare, would you support the GOP proposing that they be abolished?

Who's gonna filibuster?

"60 votes"?

Lieberman, I suppose, might, since he suffered no real consequneces for his behavior last year and Reid is generally beholden to the same paymasters. But whoever is gonna do it will be sticking their neck awfully far out. None of the 4-5 potentials would do it alone, that's for sure.

The specter of Democrats

The specter of Democrats reverse-filibustering their own President's plan is what has kept the public option alive, even if one could argue that "alive" is akin to a persistent vegetative state.

Contrast this to yes-man approach of the Congressional GOP in the early Bush years, and I personally find a lot to like about the Democratic model of the Congressional party serving as a sort of whip against the political expediency that will be the norm in any White House.

Will Rogers' famous quip about belonging to no organized political party still holds true today. That's why it's always better to have Democrats running congress, regardless of who is in the White House. They do nothing but fight among themselves over everything, whereas Republicans always fall into lockstep. Or, as was the case in the Bush years, goose-step.

In 2005, I thought it would have been a good idea for conservative Republican members to publicly threaten to oppose any Social Security bill that did not include private accounts. There were multiple problems with this, not the least of which that the Congressional leadership was too spineless to bring a bill out of committee. But another was that conservatives in the House and Senate, with no strategic prodding or muscle in the blogosphere and the activist groups, never made the threat that would have rendered a "compromise" bill dead on arrival.

The problem, there, wasn't a lack of muslce in the blogosphere, though; it was a complete lack of public support for the notion. Social Security is rightly described as "the third rail of American politics," and the public had already turned against the Republicans in general by that point anyway. I don't know that it's fair to rest that matter on "spinelessness." There has to be some more-than-passing public support for something.

That's where the top-down model of "agitation" by the conservative base falls short.

The left has to build grassroots movements from the ground up. Such movements are always unpopular when they begin, and are often outright despised. It's a long, slow process of bringing people around, but once they're brought around, they tend to be very firm in their convictions, because genuine grassroots movements that appeal to reason and to fairness don't take hold unless people find some merit in the arguments. The gay marriage thing is a perfect example of this. Support for it wouldn't have polled out of single digits 25 years ago. Today, support for either gay marriage or gay civil unions is an overwhelmingly majority view, and the hardcore opposition to it is centered in older Americans and concentrated in the elderly.

There isn't anything like this on the right. What are labeled--mislabeled, in my view--"grassroots"  conservative movements are really just the product of tons of Establishment money. Big Money using the public to pimp for its own interests. That's all the teabagger movement is. Astroturf. Whereas the liberals' causes begin with little support, even fewer resources, and have to build themselves up over time, a conservative "movement" usually has millions available to it the day it launches. That's a great comfort, if you're a conservative, of course! But when you start at third base, it poisons any effort at truly reaching people. Appeals to fear and the exploitation of ignorance--the basis of the teabagger "movement"--can only go so far, because eventually, someone points out there are no "death panels," Obama really is a U.S. citizen, and isn't a Muslim, isn't a socialist or the new Hitler, and so on, and it all falls apart.  That isn't to say illusions can't go a long way. They reelected Bush in '04. But they have limited usefulness (Bush's support collapsed almost immediately after that).

Job-killing Democrats

That's why it's always better to have Democrats running congress, regardless of who is in the White House.

The 5 million jobs lost since Pelosi became speaker, and the $2 trillion in deficits the Democrats have passed in 2 short years, and the massive tax increases they have and are going to inflict on the American economy, and the other disasters the Democrats have created and presided over ... all are reasons to fire the Democrats immediately.

american dont want the massive energy taxes, the massive destruction of the healthcare system planned in their takeover, and that massive deficit that the Democrats uncontrolled special-interest-driven spending is creating. The pur leftist ideology is driving the Democrats to undermine America's economy and undermine many things Americans hold dear.

The Democrats have been a disaster for this country, the violence they have done to our freedom, our prosperity and our future is real and obvious to any objective observer. At some point, to save Americe we have to dump the Democrats. Those limited and ignorant partisans who don't see the harm the Democrats are doing are stuck in their own false narratives.

 

The 5 million jobs lost since

The 5 million jobs lost since Pelosi became speaker, and the $2 trillion in deficits the Democrats have passed in 2 short years, and the massive tax increases they have and are going to inflict on the American economy, and the other disasters the Democrats have created and presided over ... all are reasons to fire the Democrats immediately.

I'm no shill for the Democrats, but they can hardly be held responsible for the natural business cycle that is presently in a full-on "bust" phase, or for the devastation Bush and the Republicans wrought on the economy (their rule made the last theoretical "boom" phase a bust for most), and given that they've been left with the task of cleaning up such a monumental mess, some leeway in assessing their results, particularly at so early a stage, seems prudent. As for getting rid of them for things they haven't even done yet, that would make sense in a world in which we all possessed the power of Nostradamus. In this one, it's a bit thin. Just a little.

The Democrats have been a disaster for this country, the violence they have done to our freedom, our prosperity and our future is real and obvious to any objective observer.

Again, any damage to "freedom" they may have effected in the last few months are of no consequence in comparison to the embryonic dictatorship the previous administration established, without any of this sort of ranting from the right (and, in fact, with the enthusiastic support of the right). Life goes on, in any event, and things are never as bad as partisans make them sound; Bush was one of the only times it was actually worse. Thankfully, we don't have to deal with him anymore.

That brings things nicely back to the central point fo this thread, that the present Democratic infighting in congress is much better than what happened during the Bush regime, when Republicans--as usual--fell into lockstep behind their Maximal Leader while he laid the groundwork for an horrific dictatorship. Only a fool would prefer that to the former. Democrats have their share of "party men," but a much greater share of those who function as individuals, rather than as a collective organ. They have a far bigger tent--there are liberals on the one side and many who would be more at home in the Republican party on the other. They have much broader constituencies than the Republicans. As a rule, I think one can drain the politics out of the equation and make a case that it's much better to have them running congress.

Republicans fell into lockstep behind a very weak manager...

...Bush43 was no leader.  He was a decent manager.  Had he been a leader he'd have stopped Frank, Dodd and crowd dead in their tracks from influencing the  Fmae/Fmac GSE's reckless loan practices.  And we wouldn't have had a crisis.  But he didn't did he? Instead he wrote them stern a letter.  His ridiculous "New Tone" method of dealing w/democrats was a joke.

True, Bush 43 was a fairly pathetic leader "but" at least there was one good thing about him. He would not have surrounded himself with a collection of Maoists, Marxists, Leninists and other Constitution-hating trash.  Which is what the democrat party has become, sadly.  It'll be interesting to sit back and watch it destroy itself.   Darvin Dowdy

Does it make any difference

Does it make any difference if democrats are "maoists, marxists, leninists, and other contstiution-hating trash" when republicans are for neoconism, corporate fascism, militarism, laissez-faire, and religionism. You cannot run a country on these ism's and we saw it all in 8 years. And all theories like the trickle down has flaws. Bush was not a leader and he was no manager. The deficits were out of control, he did not pay attention the economy, and the Middle East is a mess. All his numbers and assumptions and relying on God was wrong. Bush was a nut case.

Militarism has given you and I...

...the right to banter back and forth on this site and other forms of free speech.  At the cost of many lives lost.  Show a little respect for our military, please.   Corporations give us great jobs (if gov't doesn't interfere too much) which helps us care for our families,   Laissez-faire = works. Socialism/marxism has proven over and again not to work. 

And regarding Christianity?  Well the more distance we, as a Nation, put between ourselves and the Lord the faster our Nation spirals downward at an accelerated pace.  That should tell you something in and of itself.    I sense that you would not agree.  I hope/pray that changes someday for you. Darvin Dowdy

 Well, I don't know where you

 Well, I don't know where you have been for 8 years. The "cost of many lives" was only having 170,000 troops and not 500,000 troops and ignoring for three years that "we are winning the war" and yet we were losing the war. 

Corporations gives us jobs, but the jobs have gone overseas. There are no jobs in my town, 2000 jobs left. And this happened under Bush. We have globalization and it was not recognized.

And with laissez-faire, we see the factories close down and cities and states going broke and the neglect of our infrastructure. Yes, laissez-faire lives and we have seen it destroy the country.  Now, how about fixing this country.

Socialism/Marxism may not work, but the right has nothing that works either. We saw 8 years of it. You still have to manage the economy. 

And on Christianity. You have plenty of churches and everything is fine. We saw a president that ran the country and war with GOD on his side, too bad he did not consult experts before going to Iraq and have our soldiers slaughtered. 

Democrats are dumb and republicans are nuts. That is the way it sums up.

 

 

Cognitive dissonance, anyone?

Militarism has given you and I the right to banter back and forth on this site and other forms of free speech. At the cost of many lives lost.  Show a little respect for our military, please.   Corporations give us great jobs (if gov't doesn't interfere too much) which helps us care for our families,   Laissez-faire = works. Socialism/marxism has proven over and again not to work.

It's hilarious that pimpling "laissex-faire" is our grand "conclusion" while talking up corporations--a 100% government-created legal fiction--and militarism--the military-industrial complex being a system of HUGE-scale government intervention in the economy, pourng hundreds of billions into those legal fictions.

To correct anohter misapprehension, "militarism" neither does nor has ever done anything to give anyone "free speech." Militarism is anti-speech, anti-liberal, anti-democratic, and destroys our freedoms. Militaries, when necessary at all, are a necessary evil, and not a thing to be worshipped.

And regarding Christianity?  Well the more distance we, as a Nation, put between ourselves and the Lord the faster our Nation spirals downward at an accelerated pace.  That should tell you something in and of itself.

Let's see... the U.S. was born of the Englightenment, which was a move away from and even against religion, and has continued, in spite of a few regressive moments, toward a secular society ever since. At the same time, it became the most powerful, most prosperous nation not only in the world, but in the entire history of the world. Sorry, I'm afraid you're out to lunch on this one, too.

In between/Classic Lib...

...I agree IB that Milton Friedman style globalism has allowed much of our nations wealth to be siphoned off and has diminished our Middle Class. Big mistake and it is the major reason, IMHO, that the GOP has lost the last 2 major election cycles. Had not one thing to do w/WND's, the Iraq war or GWOT.   Bush43 is nothing less than a Transnational Progressive of which there are many within the GOP Hierarchy, sadly.

And I'm with you CL on the separation of Church and state.  When I spoke of our Nations distance between themselves and the Lord, I'm not talking about the gov't but the individual citizen. You can't legislate Christianity. It has to be a free will decision.  But collectively we're in a bad way spiritually.  Thats all I meant to say.

Thanks for revealing so much of your inner selves!  You see even w/the vast gulf between us we can still agree on 1 or 2 things. DD

 Very well put. I wish on

 Very well put. I wish on many subjects that 2 sides could agree, but how do you get away from the far left and right, seems next to impossible. 

IB, both the Repub's and especially the dem's...

...have completely banished any references of nationalism. The concept of nationalism has become not very politically correct. That being said, the majority of voters out in flyover country remain nationalistic. They want this gov't to put our nation and its citizenry first.  Imagine that!  But sadly, the Transnational Progressives (google this) have, apparently, taken over both political parties.  In my view this is the essence/cause of the battle going on within the GOP right now.  I think the GOP is still "fixable".  Not the dem's, however. They've traveled too far to the left. Past the point of no return. DD

 I agree the democrats have

 I agree the democrats have nothing much to offer. And I see nothing the republicans have to offer either. It has been the same o, same o. You can see it with that republican guy, Hoffman in New York who gets on Hannity and levin and says the same o, same o. We have seen two parties that have ruined the country. As long as you have the Hannitys, Levins, and Limbaughs running the country and also useless ideology, I find the republicans going nowhere. 

Nationalism: that word does not mean what you think it means

Nationalism refers to political ideologies that put the needs of the "nation" above the needs of individual citizens. Under a nationalist regime citizens are called upon to sacrifice themselves for the good of the nation which is, of course, tightly aligned with the good of the ruling elite.

I don't think flyover country wants anything to do with that. 

Over looked in Bush's social security strategy

The failure of President Bush's attempt to reform social security had, as they say, many fathers.

Yet in this age of new found tea party fiscal responsibility, we would be remiss if we failed to remember that there was never serious discussion among conservatives about how to pay for the deficits that would result from diverting future contributions into private accounts while still being on the hook for current liabilities. As with other major Bush administration initiatives deficits did not seem to matter. 

In retrospect, ignoring the cost of reform makes the public politics easier but makes it harder to understand the private politics. In other words, one reason a bill never made it to the floor is that bills must be scored before coming to floor. No reasonable GOP politician in 2005 wanted to take on the risks of "privatizing" social security and the massive deficits or tax increases a scored bill that included private accounts would have entailed.

Liberal blogs and social security reform

I appreciate Ruffini's interest in the relative roles of liberal and conservative blogs, but I disagree with every one of his many conclusions, starting with who kept the public option alive -- it was liberal senators and the Nancy Pelosi wing of congressional Democrats.  The Backus committee passed a weaker bill because it is loaded with "blue dog" Democrats.  There also is the fact that polls show that the public option is very popular.

Liberal blogs played a bigger roll in defeating Social Security reform.  The strategy followed by TalkingPointsMemo simply was to ask Senators and Congressmen whether they supported the reform.  The reform was so unpopular among their constituents that even Republicans had trouble supporting it in public, knowing that their constituents would be made aware.  The other problem with Social Security Reform was that it was based on a big lie.  The trust fund was not going to go broke any time soon, and small revenue enhancements would keep it solvent indefinitely.  There wasn't actually a problem that needed "solving".

By contrast, everyone knows that health care costs are rising and that our current system is untenable over the next decade.  Even if the Democrats' proposals are wrong, something has to change.

Ruffini is wrong to say that Republicans proposed Social Security reform without private accounts.  Private accounts were the entire proposal.  The idea was that you could put a fraction of your Social Security account into investments of your choosing -- such as the stock market -- and do better than the trust fund.  Looking back, we should be glad that didn't happen.

 

A Look Back at 2005......

 Patrick Ruffini states in his posting:

"In 2005, I thought it would have been a good idea for conservative Republican members to publicly threaten to oppose any Social Security bill that did not include private accounts. There were multiple problems with this, not the least of which that the Congressional leadership was too spineless to bring a bill out of committee. But another was that conservatives in the House and Senate, with no strategic prodding or muscle in the blogosphere and the activist groups, never made the threat that would have rendered a "compromise" bill dead on arrival."

You were correct in your thinking back then.  But, back in 2004-2005 the conservative activists were more focused on so-con issues and Iraq than on health care and Social Security reforms or on economic issues in general.  This was in part the stategery of W Rove & Co, and the Congressional GOP fell into line like lemmings.  We are now paying the price for that since the GOP now has limited substance from which to work on these most important issues.

not how it was

That's not how it was.  Social Security "reform" in 2004-2005 was nothing but privatization.  There was nothing to support but privatization.  If a Republican said he supported reform but not privatization, it was an attempt to talk out of both sides of his mouth.  Also remember that privatization was enormously unpopular, which is why even Republicans were running away from it.  By contrast, a majority of Americans today recognize the need for some kind of health care reform.  There are lots of proposals on the table.  Ironically, the most popular item on the menu -- the public option -- is the one least likely to pass.