Social conservatives pleased with Palin pick

Beyond their deep personal commitment to life and traditional family values, there are countless other reasons camp Huckabee is energized by Palin.

If we couldn't have Mike, she was the next best thing. She too is the 'authentic' voice of Middle America, the Sam's Club republican who can relate to our middle class values base. We wish her only the best.

Morally conservative activists worked hard to pave the way for the nomination of a traditional values and pro-life candidate such as Sarah Palin. I am sure that other elements in the base will also have their specific reasons for being energized by her presence. I'm just glad that McCain was able to find someone who would satisfy us all. For a while it was touch and go there.. LOL

Moral conservatives feel very blessed to have someone  who so closely reflects our values  as our veep prospect.

I look forward to what the future has in store for Mike Huckabee, political or otherwise. If his purpose was nothing more than to awaken in the faithful a recognition of thier civic responsibility, and to help us reengage in the political process when the 'religious right' was purportedly on its deathbed, we are eternally greatful. (The GOP's future in many ways depends on the continued engagement and activism of that base)

We were at the edge of a cliff, and it seemed no conservative hope was in sight (Look at who our 'top tier' were!! *shudder*) We had to scream holler and bang on political pots in our efforts to encourage John not to abandon the traditional heritage of the GOP platform in his selection of a running mate. Sarah is evidence that he listened, on multiple levels, to our multiple calls for a return to our conservative roots.

We now have a 50/50 chance as a nation to make a choice about where we want to go, and the choices couldn't be clearer.
 

Hopefully we all get on board and make the right choice.

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Ugh!

Palin is a great pick.

Her stand on social issues is wonderful. She doesn't talk it, she lives it.

And so far at least, she hasn't used religion to run down any other candidates.

What really is disgusting and discouraging is Huckabee and his supporter's attempt to latch on and ride on this pick.

The Huckster lost. Get over it.

There is nothing to GET over..

Now you're mad that we're glad?

It was always about our values being represented on the ticket, not about Mike alone. We supported him because he represented what we believe. And Sarah does too, so we're thrilled.

It seems someone else needs to get over it.

This is a win win for everyone.

Instead of ragging on our support for our nominee, maybe you should write a post celebrating why YOU are glad she's the pick. i wasn't trying to speak for everyone, only for why we appreciate her.

First....

It would be wonderful if you were lauding the pick of Sarah Palin but that's now what your post is about.

Look at your title. Look at your attempts to tie Huckster to our VP. Huckster has no place on this ticket and he will never have a place on any presidential ticket. Enough of Mike Huckabee.

Why not be thankful we have an all around conservative candidate and stop trying to push Huckabee? It's settled. He lost. Thank God!

 

 

Its all about perspective

This post was about WHY Huckabee supporters find Palin acceptable, never pretended to be otherwise. That's lauding to me. Your reasons are different than mine, but that doesn't invalidate mine.

If folks want to deny that the protests of pro-life activists, most of whom are found in the social conservative base of the party did not contribute to this pick, that's fine by me. But there were many fiscal and defense conservatives who were pro choice or inconsistent on life that would have been 'acceptable' to McCain if we hadn't made some noise.

So yes, we do feel a sense of ownership in this decision. It's a victory for our cause. In as much that she is also a stalwart conservative on all other legs of the stool is icing on the cake and wise decision making on McCain's part. Everybody else was potentially divisive, Mike included.

Social conservatives would not have had a true voice in this election without Mike, (in our opinion) His leadership re-energized that base and got us involved again.

He didn't lose. We won. People just have their eye on the wrong prize.

Ps. Since reading about Mike seems to pain you so, I took out the comparative list that explained why we dig her so much. However, Mike's not going anywhere, even after the election has come and gone, and his grassroots community is planning to stay active in working with his PAC, so folks will have to get used to reading updates now and then.

Perspective: self congratulations, shilling, and a whiff of ...

It reads like self congratulations  and shilling further for Mike.  Try writing stuff that doesnt mention Huck at all. Just try it. He's simply not relevent anymore.

It also raised the  reminder of how a decent and honorable man by the name of Mitt Romney has been dragged through the mud, mainly by the minions of Huckabee, ostensibly because he's 'inconsistent', but under the surface anti-mormon religious prejudice lurked.  Many in the Republican party are not happy at all that the foul stench of religious prejudice came up in the primary, and high-fiving the non-selection of Romney, as if he wouldnt have been a good VP as well, is pukable to some of us for that reason.

Most of us were done with Mike a long long time ago. he lost me almost a year ago when he refused to back Bush on his S-CHIP veto in a key debate. That was an attempt by Pelosi Democrats to triple spending on this program, and Huck would have caved.  a review of his record as Governor revealed that Cato ranked him 45th out of 50 on fiscal responsibility, with the dregs of the tax-and-spend liberal Democrats, that I realized, as Rush said in Jan 3rd 2008, "he is no conservative". Huck is a fraud, my friend, who stroked the so con vibes with his preacher riffs, but who had no fiscal conservative credibility.

I too am glad we are picking a genuine conservative like Sarah Palin, who is a Christian but who also is unafraid to veto wasteful spending. That true-blue unifying conservative was missing from the race, which is why we got the war hero maverick  McCain instead.

"We won"  The fight is not won - no, on November 4th we will know if we've won. All we've done so far is witnessed a great VP selection by McCain. We havent won anything  if Obama wins the election.

McCain/Palin 08

support for Palin across the party and country

I believe we (socons) have been very blessed to have someone so much like Mike as our veep prospect.

It would be enough to point out that Palin has great support from the social conservative and evangelical wings of the party. But I knew that when I saw Dobson on H&C Friday night. FredHeads, libertarians, moderates, even Hillary supporters like her.

Since Palin brings so much more to the ticket than Huck would, any comparisons are just embarrassing to Huck at this point. Let the ticket stand on it own without trying to take credit for it. Huck like Lamar Alexander will never be on the national ticket. He is either going to the US senate or going nowhere.

Feel better now??

I have scrubbed most references to Mike from the post.. the point remaines the same.

Conservatives worked hard to bring McCain back to the fold, and it worked.

When last I checked, there was still a God in heaven, and it is He, not pundits who elevates or deposes leaders.

What Huckabee achieves in his career will have everything to do with how hard he works to achieve his goals, and very little to do with the holdouts who hold grudges. If he's a good enough politician, he will do what it takes to build bridges and consolodate support.

I would be very surprised if he didn't make it onto a national ticket someday . He's got 20 years.

McCain back to the fold?

"Conservatives worked hard to bring McCain back to the fold, and it worked." I guess is a fair enough way to describe Sarah Palin's VP appointment. But something tells me as far as McCain goes, it really didn't matter who his choice for VP was, McCain is still going to be McCain.  All this appointment means to McCain is, he'll listen to the advice of his VP even less than he normally would have when he goes it alone.

Now that I think about it,  McCain would probably see Gov. Palin as a beginner, a political neophyte, incapable of actually addressing, much less challenging, his more liberal bents. This appointment makes perfect sense if you are a self-centered, egotistical megalomaniac needing to solidify your conservative base without actually having your politics challenged by such an appointment. Someone he can justifiably send off to some deep, dark room somewhere to sharpen pencils if she ever tried to raise a voice of concern over some real policy issue in a John McCain administration.

 ex animo

davidfarrar

Farrar, you have stepped over the line

Congratulations - you are now eligible to join the ranks of the Far Left's misogynists.  We've been asked to keep our responses civil here at The Next Right, so I'm going to refrain from expressing what I really think of you in lay terms.  Your so-called rant against McCain is thin veil for your obvious disdain for Governor Palin - the same Governor you referred to in an earlier post as "Sarah WHO??".   I can see how much research you've invested in getting to know her accomplishments since that admission of ignorance.

You, Sir, are an uninformed, uneducated, uncivil Libertarian.  I'm incredibly disappointed in you. 

If I have offended you, I apologize.

Sometimes during a political campaign people see their candidate through rose-colored glasses. Due to a lack of training or political experience,  they fail to see the tick in politics.  But rest assured, John McCain sees Gov. Palin as nothing more than a politically useful patsy, nothing more.

ex animo

davidfarrar

David is absolutely right. As

David is absolutely right.

As a woman I'm insulted by McCain's obvious pragmatic use of Ms. Palin to pander to both women and to evangelicals; as well as by his assumption that women will flock to a ticket just because there's a girl on it. I don't find his ticket progressive; I find it patronizing. And I'm not exactly what you'd call a feminist.

I imagine David is not emotionally involved in this VP pick, so it's all the easier for him to call it like it is. Palin is a pawn in a game. Personally, I think McCain made a strategic error in the game, but that's probably a post for another time.

I got news for the both of ya. . .

. . .though, I know neither of you will agree.

To take offense at the selection of a woman as McCain's Veep nominee reveals that you were essentially looking for something to be offended about.  There are all manner of issues that recommend Palin to the Republican ticket, and the fact that she is a female who holds potential appeal to other women is only one of them.

First, her middle class upbringing brings a sensibility to the ticket that is DESPERATELY needed by the Republican Party right now.  The ability to relate to middle class voters is the holy grail of politics.  The inability to recognize that fact is a sign that you're looking for something to be aggrieved about.

Secondly, her conservative bona fides are impeccable, and the ability to generate enthusiasm among the conservative base -- which McCain has struggled to do since he captured the nomination is the holy grail of Republican politics.  Again, the inability to recognize that fact is a sign that you're looking for something to be aggrieved about.

Thirdly, her credentials as a reformer help bring about the opportunity for McCain to reclaim that part of his general narrative, and the fact that she has instituted reform to the sound of  caterwauling of the party establishment in Alaska -- whose corruption rivals that of Chicago and New Orleans -- helps McCain to reclaim that mantle without further alienating the conservative base of his party, which up until now, got queasy everytime he mentioned the word.  The inability to recognize that fact, once again, indicates that you're looking for something to be aggrieved about.

Her deep familiarity with energy issues is, yet again, something that is a huge benefit to McCain at this particular time -- both in terms of electability and governance.   Having chaired the Oil and Gas Commission in Alaska and resigning in protest as a consequence of the corruption bolsters the ticket in terms of both domestic energy production, and again as a corruption fighter.  And, again, the failure to recognize this fact reveals that you're looking for something to be aggrieved about.

Her pro-life bona fides are unimpeachable.  The conservative base of the GOP was in an uproar at the very idea that he was considering the idea of a pro-choice running mate, even though he insisted that his administration would have pro-life policies, regardless of his selection.  Having Palin on the ticket provides instant credibility that he will, indeed, follow through on that pro-life stance.  If you can't see the benefit of that to his ticket, again, you're looking for something to be aggrieved about.

Now, you can go on with your life being chronically indignant about the notion that McCain was being patronizing in his selection of Palin and still say that you're not a feminist.  But, if it comes down to that, I don't really see what the difference is.  You might as well throw your lot in with them, because if you're going to work yourself into a froth over an imagined threat like that, there's not a dime's worth of difference.

As for David -- he's the "Reagan conservative" who has been kicked off two Ron Paul boards, a Unity '08 board, has considered supporting Obama even after acknowledging that he would prove to be a greater threat in office with regard to the war on terror, wants to nationalize the health care system, and is really interested in nothing more than starting up the political version of the Heaven's Gate cult.

Feel free to throw your lot in with that.  I'm sure there's all kinds of room for the chronically indignant in the National Online Party.

woah there, hotstuff. I never

woah there, hotstuff. I never said I was offended by the fact that he chose a woman. I'm offended at the thought that he passed over more qualified candidates, both male and female, to go with this one.

Further, I did not suggest I had any complaints about her political ideology. I said I think her selection was a strategic mistake, specifically with regard to the electoral college.

If you don't mind my saying so, Walt, you read an awful lot into my five sentence post up there. I'm not certain that I'm the one looking for something to take offense to, if you know what I mean.

Well, Lisa. . .

. . .if that were the case, then you shouldn't be offended "as a woman".  Just plain ol' offended on behalf of whomever your candidate of choice happened to be.

It just strikes me that when you dismiss the choice out-of-hand because you deem her somehow less qualified than whomever your preference was without considering all that she brings to the table, and you play the "girl card" in doing so, you're looking to paint McCain with the kind of brush that I just painted you with.

I mean, you can't just call someone what amounts to a misogynist (which would have to be the case if you agree with what Dave said above) and expect someone to not take you at your word.  It seems to me that you either believe that McCain is using Palin in some cynical ploy to elicit a Pavlovian response from women (of whom he must not think very highly, that being the case), or you think he chose her in good faith, but made a tactical error.

If it's a tactical error, there's no need to suggest that he's using her as some intern with no skill beyond pencil sharpening.  And, to suggest so -- or agree with -- is an affront to Palin in itself.

 *Edited to clean up a horrible sentence.

I never called anyone a

I never called anyone a misogynist. Someone else called Dave a misogynist. The term is used far too often.

I disagree with your dichotomy. Yes, McCain is using Palin as a pawn to draw in certain voters, and I think that this decision, in and of itself, is the tactical mistake.

And incidentally, your second parenthetical remark is exactly what I said in my first post (my exact words were "as well as by his assumption that women will flock to a ticket just because there's a girl on it"), that I'm offended at McCain's impression of women, and frankly most of the commentators' as well, that women would rally around Palin simply because she's female, with disregard for her political ideology  or other qualifications.

Let me be clear

Farrar, I thank you for your apology which sounds sincere and is appreciated.  It takes real guts to do that, and I salute you.

The reason I applied the term "Misogynist" in the first place is because you wrote the following:

This appointment makes perfect sense if you are a self-centered, egotistical megalomaniac needing to solidify your conservative base without actually having your politics challenged by such an appointment. Someone he can justifiably send off to some deep, dark room somewhere to sharpen pencils if she ever tried to raise a voice of concern over some real policy issue in a John McCain administration.

Schopenhauer is famous for his essay "On Women" (Über die Weiber), in which claimed that "woman is by nature meant to obey."  There are many definitions of misogyny, however this "obedience" aspect is what I read into your "criticism" of McCain as a thinly veiled insult toward Sarah Paliin's accomplishments, competency and resume - which is in no way as thin as the MSM, the Obama Campaign and Jon Stewart would like us to believe.  I am absolutely convinced that her noncomformist, nonthreatening manner of being able to challenge her colleagues will apply to challenging McCain if she feels he's mistaken as much as it will being mentored by him when she feels he's on the right track.  Misogyny generally falls into two categories: (1) women are not qualified for "this type of work" and (2) a warning against the wiles of women (the latter is being perpetrated by the Left, and I congratulate you for wisely not going down that particular road).

Lisa, you've made your intention to withhold your vote for McCain clear from the start, and I've never faulted you for your decision in that regard.  I felt that you had made an informed choice in the matter, and that his values were not aligned with yours.  This statement, however, tremendously disappoints me:

As a woman I'm insulted by McCain's obvious pragmatic use of Ms. Palin to pander to both women and to evangelicals; as well as by his assumption that women will flock to a ticket just because there's a girl on it.

This fallacy of extension thankfully falls short of the comparison to Hitler, but it certainly exaggerates your opponent (Senator McCain) as a panderer and user. 

Let's say that my manager decides to throw me into a project group which had never taken off previously because most of the male members of the group were not well-disposed toward working with feminist women.  In fact they would regularly chew them up and spit them out, thus rendering the project completely stalled.  Should I be insulted if my manager sized me up as someone who possessed an attitude that would render me more useful in achieving results with conservative males in the construction and non-professional trades than some of my colleagues?  Perhaps I should instigate a lawsuit against him for "using me"?  Would that be productive?  Or should I acknowledge the skill of an executive who picks the best team player for the role that will allow the entire team to meet specific goals for success.  Anyone who is offended by such pragmatism to achieve results is, in my opinion, either (a) naive and inexperienced, (b) counterproductively ideological, and/or (c) biased against the executive. 

Governor Palin has accomplished more in two years than her predecessor did in twelve years.  As far as Palin being a "pawn in a game", let me assure that we are all pawns in a game.  If you're a human being living in any kind of community that requires interaction with other humans, you are, by definition, a pawn in some form of game or other.  She's been hired to perform a role, and to perform the tasks required by her executive and the rest of the team.  In chess, even the King and Queen are "played" by the chessmaster.  No one is above it, and that is not a useful critique.  Having 20 year relationships with racists like Jeremiah Wright and allegedly extorting $100 million from the Annenberg Foundation and the taxpayers of Illionois in partnership with William Ayers - those are what I would consider useful critiques for the leadership of this country. 

McCain's decision also has absolutely nothing to do with a "girl" on the ticket.  This is offensive to me because Governor Palin hardly a girl - she is a fully grown woman who's about to become a grandmother.  Frankly I'm appalled that a woman would speak in such disrespectful terms about another woman. McCain's decision has to do with putting a non-conformist who was willing to butt heads with the corrupt Republican establishment on the ticket.  McCain would have chosen such an individual, whom he feels matches his "maverick reformer" credentials, regardless of gender.  Your opinion indicates a complete ignorance and lack of research that is unworthy of the intelligence and scholarship I was sure you possessed.  The greatest single qualifier for Palin is that she took on the corrupt Republican establishment and won.  Her next great qualifier is her experience in the energy industry, which is central to our national security and economy.

As far as being emotionally involved with this VP pick, as a middle-aged woman who is overjoyed to see someone of my gender and generation finally reach a level of service in this country which is historic, well-earned and which has energized the base in a way I never though possible, I am pleased to admit to such an involvement.  

I stand by this statement:

"This appointment makes perfect sense if you are a self-centered, egotistical megalomaniac needing to solidify your conservative base without actually having your politics challenged by such an appointment. Someone he can justifiably send off to some deep, dark room somewhere to sharpen pencils if she ever tried to raise a voice of concern over some real policy issue in a John McCain administration."

So if I understand your post correctly, my statement is calling McCain a "misogynist," among other things.

Fair enough.

 ex animo

davidfarrar

 

 

No, you don't understand my post correctly

And I'm beginning to think you may not ever.  By saying that Palin is someone he can justifiably send off to some deep dark room to sharpen pencils, you are offending her ability to stand up and be an independent and respected voice in his administration, you're saying she cannot be a peer partner.  I feel you are sayiing this because you think she's some kind of neophyte.  The Governer has been governing in one for or another for 16 years.  This is why I find it an offensive statement - to say that a woman in politics for 16 years cannot stand up to John McCain is offensive and insulting to a woman's credentials, credibility, experience and resume.  I'm of the opinion that you're an ignorant, opinionated sexist who absolutely refuse to do your homework because you've already made up your mind.  Instead, you prefer to argue with me.  I give up.  You win. 

Once again, dear lady...

...this thread is not about the experience or inexperience of Gov. Palin. This thread is all about John McCain being John McCain. Gov. Sarah Palin could be the very personification of Ronald Reagen, in John McCain's world, nobody is going to see or hear anything from the Vice-President after the election. So to suggest that somehow John McCain has come back into the social conservative fold simply because he has picked a social conservative, is dubious at best.

ex animo

davidfarrar

The only tactical error made here...

...Walt, was made by you when you failed to see the object of mine and Lisa's posts was not Gov. Palin, but John McCain.

If social conservatives want to believe Gov. Palin's Veep appointment means anything more to McCain than a useful tool to keep them pacified, while keeping his own political options more opened because of her lack of experience, they are welcome to their own beliefs.

As the original poster to which I replied seemed to indicate, he thought McCain had been forced into this appointment by the social conservative wing of the Party. This is John McCain's way of saying to the social conservatives, "Okay, my friends; you roped me into this appointment, now see how much I care." 

I can assure you that if John McCain wins this election, he's going to be whispering into Lieberman's ear every time the Veep is mentioned: "Sarah, who? Hee-hee. Hee-hee"

ex animo

davidfarrar

Dave, my friend. . .

. . .you'll just have to forgive me if I scoff at the notion that you know a damned thing about social conservatism, or conservatism in general.  You want a little "tee-hee" in the ear?  How about the fact that your boy -- Ron "Dr. No" Paul -- had you suckered into believing that he is principled in any way, only to turn around and back Don "Bridge to Nowhere" Young against a reformist challenger, Sean Parnell (whom Palin supported, by the way), in a VERY close race in Alaska, and is likely responsible for putting him over the top.

If that's indicative the sort of wisdom and insight you bring to the discussion, I feel quite safe in casting my vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin.  At the very least, McCain has put his money where his mouth is and chose a genuine conservative for the ticket who will run on genuine conservative ideas and promote them while in office.  Ron Paul ran as a supposed "true conservative" and backed the very embodiment of all that is wrong with the Repubilcan Party and helped to perpetuate the corruption that is bleeding it dry.

You are certainly welcome to your so-called principles.  But, what the hell are they worth?  What have they brought us?  A bridge to nowhere.

Walt, you're a great guy.

You don't really understand that by attacking me instead my message, you do more to validate my message than I could ever possibly accomplish. In fact, the reason why you attack me instead of my mesaage is because you think my message was so close to the truth you too believe in, you have to hide it even from yourself. 

But, alas, my dear friend; there is a place even for you at The National Online Party.  I was just thinking about this website the other day when you favored me by mentioning it in one of your more recent posts. I think the Internet can reinvigorate our democracy by empowering the real strength of the people, in fact, the only real strength the people have in politics, their numbers.

For an example: If T.Bone Pickens, or whatever his name is, had invested just a few million in building  an online political structure instead of wasting millions and millions on TV commericals, he could have completely controlled his issue by now. Politics is nothing but numbers. Create an honest online political structure people can go to and they will come by the millions. The "tick" here, of course, is in keeping what you have created, honest.  

ex animo

davidfarrar

Happy to help. . .

. . .David.  Keep me updated on your registration numbers, will ya?

I'm holding off until I see how your Reagan Conservative Nationalized Healthcare plan works out.

 

There are pluses and minuses for everyone

Romney had a bad image with the press from the primaries. Pawlenty was as little known as Palin and had little "wow" factor.  Ridge might have provoked a floor vote. Lieberman couldn't back much of the platform and might have provoked a walkout.

As for other candidates "passed over", most of the possible female contenders a) had the same social issue problems Ridge and Lieberman has, or b) had never won an election, or c) were also rather mature and did not aid the Mac case for younger voters. 

For instance, I pointed out Kay Bailey Hutchison was pro-choice and would remind voters of Bush by virtue of being from TX. If an otherwise qualified person costs you votes you simply can't name them to the ticket.  (FYI: yep, maybe the pro-life requrement got overdone but I will not live long enough to see a pro-life person even seriously considered for the D ticket) 

Perhaps the more cynical and less talented people in the Mac camp see this as a simple identity pick and presume the voters will follow. That's a bad assumption for any running mate. But I wouldn;t blame them for being patronizing.

If the presumption was not to put a mature white man on the ticket Palin was clearly as much in the mix as anyone else

Some may be missing the point

I'm not so sure that McCain chose Palin for the primary purpose of attracting Hillary's voters.

I think he chose her to cement the base. And she has. In spades.

She will also pick up a percentage of the female independent vote but Hillary's feminists will never vote for a socially conservative woman. McCain knows that.

Beyond her gender McCain likes her reformer image. And the voters like it too.

Yes, it's a high risk pick but McCain is a high risk kind of guy at times. Fighter pilots are like that.