Rush vs. Newt: Game On!

I am still trying to digest what everyone agrees was an important speech by Rush Limbaugh to CPAC attendees on Saturday. It was, perhaps, the most entertaining political speech I've ever heard. But a speech that will last for decades and make an impact on the conservative movement? No one knows. But we can try and judge it based on some solid principles of what makes a good political speech.

I have often pointed to Theodore H. White's definition of what goes into the making of a good political speech - the moment in history when the speech is given, the background or "framing" of the speech, and the words themselves. In these respects, Limbaugh hit a stand up double and, with a little more effort, may have stretched it to a triple. The moment in history was ripe; conservatism at sea, rudderless, and uncertain of itself in the age of Obama. The backdrop - the CPAC convention with just about everyone who is anyone in the conservative movement present and paying attention (exceptions include some more moderate conservatives frozen out by the movement) as well as mass media coverage. But the words themselves meandered aimlessly at times as Limbaugh treated the address more like an extended monologue from his radio show rather than a well crafted, carefully thought out political speech.

Newt Gingrich also spoke to a large, enthusiastic crowd at CPAC but didn't get half the coverage of Limbaugh despite a speech that, in many ways, was even more important than Rush's tour de force. The difference in the two speeches was striking. Rush eschewed a teleprompter - to his detriment I think while Newt used the device to say exactly what he meant to say. Meanwhile, Gingrich had his ideas bubbling up from somewhere deep inside, churning and frothing on the surface until they were laid out like a picnic lunch, cogently and coherently by a master conceptualist. Limbaugh's speech was more volcanic- erupting against Obama and the Democrats emotionally while flowing effortlessly from pop culture conservatism to a more thoughtful but still generalized critique of the Obama administration.

The juvenile confrontation yesterday between Limbaugh and RNC Chairman Michael Steele, placed in the context of Limbaugh's extended remarks at CPAC, would lead one to believe that there is the possibility of a civil war erupting in the GOP between the grass roots and the elites. That may yet happen. However, I think it much more likely that war will break out between movement conservatives like Gingrich and "party men" like Limbaugh.

Who is Rush Limbaugh? And why did the only other speech of note at the conference - New Gingrich's much more thoughtful but flawed critique of conservatism - not receive the massive attention devoted to Limbaugh?

 

Because Rush is on radio? I'm sure that's part of it. But beyond that, one speaker gave the audience largely what they wanted to hear, putting into words the feelings and fears of listeners while the other engaged the minds of his audience by relating some uncomfortable but necessary truths. In that kind of competition, the appeal to emotion wins out over the appeal to intellect every time.

Limbaugh does not fit any of the comfortable definitions that liberals and the media love to apply to conservatives. Calling him a mere talk show host is simply wrong and reveals the ignorance of anyone who tries and make that claim. Limbaugh has crossed the cultural divide and, like Obama, become more than a political figure (or entertainer) and achieved a peculiar kind of celebrity. Ross Douthat believes a more appropos comparison is with Oprah Winfrey, someone who crosses easily between the entertainment and political world. In this respect, the irony is that both men start from the other side of that divide. Limbaugh, the entertainer has passed Obama while on the way to achieving his status as political bellweather of the GOP. Meanwhile, Obama was moving the other way, from political force to cultural celebrity. Loved by their legions of supporters, despised by their opponents (with both men generating a hate from their opponents that mirrors the passion of their supporters), the deliciousness of this parallel between the two men shows both the strengths and weaknesses of our political culture.

But Limbaugh's status is a millstone around the neck of conservatism. Despite his obvious gift of a sharp mind and his presenting the clear impression that he has given a considerable amount of thought to the nature of modern conservatism, Limbaugh nevertheless has a rather narrow and even shallow view of what conservatism is and where it stands right now. Limbaugh's speech appealed to the heart, rather than the head.

For those of you just tuning in on the Fox News Channel or C-SPAN, I'm Rush Limbaugh and I want everyone in this room and every one of you around the country to succeed. I want anyone who believes in life, liberty, pursuit of happiness to succeed. And I want any force, any person, any element of an overarching Big Government that would stop your success, I want that organization, that element or that person to fail. I want you to succeed. [Applause] Also, for those of you in the Drive-By Media watching, I have not needed a teleprompter for anything I've said. [Cheers and Applause ] And nor do any of us need a teleprompter, because our beliefs are not the result of calculations and contrivances. Our beliefs are not the result of a deranged psychology. Our beliefs are our core. Our beliefs are our hearts. We don't have to make notes about what we believe. We don't have to write down, oh do I believe it do I believe that we can tell people what we believe off the top of our heads and we can do it with passion and we can do it with clarity, and we can do it persuasively. Some of us just haven't had the inspiration or motivation to do so in a number of years, but that's about to change. [Cheers and Applause]

Limbaugh struggles to move beyond these show biz tropes when he gets into what he describes as a definition of conservatism:

Let me tell you who we conservatives are: We love people. [Applause] When we look out over the United States of America, when we are anywhere, when we see a group of people, such as this or anywhere, we see Americans. We see human beings. We don't see groups. We don't see victims. We don't see people we want to exploit. What we see -- what we see is potential. We do not look out across the country and see the average American, the person that makes this country work. We do not see that person with contempt. We don't think that person doesn't have what it takes. We believe that person can be the best he or she wants to be if certain things are just removed from their path like onerous taxes, regulations and too much government. [Applause]

We want every American to be the best he or she chooses to be. We recognize that we are all individuals. We love and revere our founding documents, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. [Applause] We believe that the preamble to the Constitution contains an inarguable truth that we are all endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, among them life. [Applause] Liberty, Freedom. [Applause] And the pursuit of happiness. [Applause] Those of you watching at home may wonder why this is being applauded. We conservatives think all three are under assault. [Applause] Thank you. Thank you.

Aside from the small matter that the quote about "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" appears not in the preamble to the Constitution but the Declaration of Independence, that is a very nice start to explaining what conservatism means. But after telling the audience he was going to define conservatism, Limbaugh flits away off to another red meat topic guaranteed to light a fire under his listeners. His bragging about not needing to write down what his principles are because "we can tell people what we believe off the top of our heads and we can do it with passion and we can do it with clarity, and we can do it persuasively," may be true as far as it goes but I am reminded of Francis Bacon's admonition "Reading maketh a full man, conference a ready man, and writing an exact man." Judging by Rush's speech, he was anything but "exact."

But this didn't seem to bother his thousands of admirers as he hammered away gleefully at Obama and liberals. Here, Rush shows he's somewhat familiar with Daniel Patrick Moynihan's critique of the effect of the welfare state on Black families and gets to the nub of the Obama revolution; dependency:

They do believe that they have compassion. They do believe they care. But, see, we never are allowed to look at the results of their plans, we are told we must only look at their good intentions, their big hearts. The fact that they have destroyed poor families by breaking up those families by offering welfare checks to women to keep having babies no more father needed, he's out doing something, the government's the father, they destroy the family. We're not supposed to analyze that. We're not supposed to talk about that. We're supposed to talk about their good intentions. They destroy people's futures. The future is not Big Government. Self-serving politicians. Powerful bureaucrats. This has been tried, tested throughout history. The result has always been disaster. President Obama, your agenda is not new. It's not change, and it's not hope. [Applause] Spending a nation into generational debt is not an act of compassion. All politicians, including President Obama, are temporary stewards of this nation. It is not their task to remake the founding of this country. It is not their task to tear it apart and rebuild it in their image.

(Crowd chanting "USA")

It is not their task, it is not their right to remake this nation to accommodate their psychology. I sometimes wonder if liberalism is not just a psychosis or a psychology, not an ideology. It's so much about feelings, and the predominant feeling that liberalism is about is about feeling good about themselves and they do that by telling themselves they have all this compassion. You know, if you really want to unhinge a liberal it's hard to do because they're so unhinged now anyway, even after -- but all you have to do is say you know that the things you people do, the things you people believe in are cruel. That's the last way they look at themselves. They are the best people on the -- they're the good people. You tell them that their ideas and that their policies are cruel and the eggs start scrambling.

But it was Rush's references to Reagan that put him at odds with reformers like Gingrich. Limbaugh believes talk of "change" is treason. There is nothing wrong with conservatism that wouldn't be cured by transplanting the Reagan agenda to the present:

Conservatism -- for us to make the decision that we've got to figure out policies, to get the Walmart voter -- psst, we've got most of them already, is the bottom line. Conservatism is a universal set of core principles. You don't check principles at the door. This is a battle that we're going to have. And there are egos involved here, too. When the situation like ours exists, there are people who want to lead it. They want to redefine it. Their egos are such that they want to be the next X, whoever it is. So there will be different factions lining up to try to define what conservatism is. And beware of those different factions who seek as part of their attempt to redefine conservatism, as making sure the liberals like us, making sure that the media likes us. They never will, as long as we remain conservatives. They can't possibly like us; they're our enemy. In a political arena of ideas, they're our enemy. They think we need to be defeated. Why do you think -- you all in this room know this. For those of you watching at home, my first address to the nation -- [Laughter] -- I'm sure you paid close enough attention, that you knew at one time Senator McCain was the favorite Republican of all the cable news networks and the Sunday shows. And they would just -- I mean their tongues would be on the floor. T

he media people (panting) when they knew McCain was coming. And they would treat McCain as the greatest guy in the world. Did you wonder why? You were told he was moderate. He was not strict. He was not an authoritarian, he was able to walk to the other side of the aisle, able to get along with the enemy. And everybody wants love and bipartisanship. That's not why they invited Senator McCain. They invited Senator McCain because he happened to be the loudest at criticizing his own president and his own party and that's what they want, is people from our side -- and there will be factions in our movement, folks, who are going to make an effort to say we have to grow, we can't stay stale, I think I heard the term used the other day. Nothing stale about freedom. There's nothing stale about liberty. There's nothing stale about fighting for it. Nothing stale whatsoever. [Applause] Freedom. Are you getting tired of standing up, I don't blame you. By the way for those watching on TV you think the standing -- people are just tired. They've been up and out of their chairs 100 times here. [Applause] Thank you. Freedom -- freedom is the natural yearning of the human spirit as we were endowed by our creator. And the United States of America is the place in the world where that yearning flourishes, where freedom is expected because it's part of the way we're created.

I will say frankly that this is the nuttiest part of Limbaugh's speech. There is probably no one answer to what ails conservatism but there is widespread agreement among profressionals that people like Rush, who wish to repeal not only the Great Society but also the New Deal, are anachronisms. It is not going to happen - ever. The question then becomes do conservatives chase a will o' the wisp goal that guarantees them permanent minority status or do they apply conservative principles to government as it is and not as we would wish it to be?

I am a broken record saying this as my regular readers know. Since I began promoting this course of action, several commenters have made some excellent points that reveal glaring weaknesses in this formulation. To wit.

* There is a danger that anything proposed by conservatives in Congress would be seen simply as "liberal lite" and voters would give the GOP no credit for dealing with reality.

* The nature of the opposition would make any effort to apply conservative principles to governance moot.

* There is also a danger of throwing our principles under the bus in an effort to compromise.

* The American people are basically conservative and all we have to do is become more conservative ourselves to win.

This will not be an easy or quick route back to power. But I believe a recognition that for conservatism to be vital it must be brought into the 21st century where appeals to the heart fall by the wayside and calls for new thinking dominate. Here's Gingrich at CPAC (unfortunately I have been unable to acquire a transcript of this speech and only have these extended excerpts):

The great irony of where we are today is that we have a Bush- Obama big spending program that was bipartisan in its nature. Last year the Bush-Obama plan had a $180 billion stimulus package in the spring which failed. It came back with a $345 billion housing package in the summer which failed. It then had a $700 billion Wall Street spending package in October which failed. It had a $4 trillion Federal Reserve guarantee which failed… We got big spending under Bush, now we got big spending under Obama. And so we have 2 new failures.

The lesson I draw from this is that we have a party of the American people… that was led by Ronald Reagan and on the legislative side reached its peak with the Contract with America and the election of a majority actually dedicated to reforming welfare, cutting taxes, and balancing the budget. And there is a party of big government and political elites and tragically in the last few years the Republican party became the right wing of the party of big government and political elites. And that is why there is a Bush Obama continuity in economic policy which is frankly a disaster for this country and cannot work.”

I find it fascinating that both men invoke the name of Reagan in two entirely different theaters. Rush points to Reagan's core beliefs as set in stone - despite the fact that 48% of Americans already pay no taxes at all. How across the board tax cuts would generate the trillions in revenue to offset the damage already done by Obama goes unanswered. On the other hand, Gingrich takes the Gipper's desire to reach out to Democrats and independents and uses it as a model for a conservative comeback. Note also that where Rush almost exclusively talks of Republicans, Gingrich speaks more generally about conservatives. I consider this the most important statement made during the entire week:

And so it is time to recreate the party of the American people and to recognize that that is a much bigger party than the Republican party. In every major political speech Ronald Reagan reached out to Democrats and Independents as well as Republicans, and he understood to govern in America you have to bring people together in a tripartisan majority. We are bigger than the Republican party, we stand for principles that transcend the Republican party, and we’re going to fight for the principles that lead to economic growth and jobs.”

It is implicit in forming this "tri-partisan majority" that some aspects of the welfare state as well as regulatory agencies are remade to function according to conservative principles and not done away with entirely as many Limbaugh conservatives would like to see. Too many Americans benefit from these government programs for the Middle Class to abandon them in favor of some nebulous promise that suffering by denying oneself benefits from government is somehow enobling. In a modern state of 300 million people, the Jeffersonian "yeoman farmer" model of the republic is a fantasy that, if it ever was true, hasn't been so for more than 100 years. Limbaugh, the Iconoclast vs. Gingrich the Conceptualizer. That is where the movement will cleave most noticably. One side living in the past, fantasizing about recapturing conservative greatness by stroking Reagan's name and accomplishments as if they were a magic talisman designed to wipe away the modern world and lead us back to some ancien regime where everyone bagged their own meat, built their own houses, and churned their own butter. The other, dealing with life in America as it is in the 21st century - an enormously complex clash of interests where conservatism must find a comfortable place in which to compete in the great marketplace of ideas.

It will be a lovely little war.

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Comments

Rush is a conservative iconodule, not an iconoclast

Limbaugh, the Iconoclast Iconodule vs. Gingrich the Conceptualizer

FYP.

There's a lot here. But I thought I'd just toss that out. Rush is not an iconoclast when it comes to conservatism. He is an iconodule: one who venerates icons. As such I think he is backward looking.

I think at this particular moment in conservatism's history we need more iconoclasts.

This day was always on the

This day was always on the horizon.

Rush gets more news

because news favors the sensational. On that Rush is unbeatable. It's the only place in his life he can call a success.

For all his millions, I would not want to be him. Why he gets so much republican mind share is beyond me.

I don't really see any difference between Newt and Rush.

Both represent the fiscally conservative wing of the Republican party. Both have their parts to play in bringing that message back into the mainstream of  American political thought.

While Newt is definitely the more philosophical, Rush, as the times now require it, has his part to play as "The last man standing."

The Republican party would do well to follow the example of both of these fine conservatives, but it seems to be listening to other voices at the moment.

ex animo

davidfarrar

Heaven for Democrats

The Democrats are truly in ancension when the top Republicans are the likes of Limbaugh and Gingrich.  Limbaugh tells listeners not to try to have good policy ideas, but to insist on right wing ideology.  Gingrich left the House in disgrace for ethics violations.  There was clear evidence of him committing a felony, but the recording was made illegally and was inadmissable in court. 

These guys guarantee Democrats a long secure rule.

Vince Neil Rox...

Whateve's the future of the right; we're always having good dreams down at the whiskey!

Vince Neil Rox!!!

Rush was absent for 8 years.

Rush was absent for 8 years. The little I listened to him, he did not talk about the problems that Bush brought about. A guy who replaced Rush for one day on the radio said "deficits are good." So we get it. Deficits are good under republicans and not good under democrats. It is both funny and sad that we have to have politics this way. What a joke. 

Process and Policy vs. Philosophy

 

We all like Newt, he is a warrior.  Rush is an icon, bombastic yes, conservative to the core.  Does Rush miss some of the intricacies and nuance that Newt explores.  Sure he does.  Unlike Rush, do many conservatives miss the forest for the trees.  You better believe it.  

This battle is between process and philosophy.  Rush is narrowly focused on the conservative philosophy to the myopic exclusion of other points of view.  And this is precisely why he succeeds in attracting the largest audience across America to himself and by extension our cause.  He's not a leader of a party; he's unwilling to put himself in that position.  He's not really the leader of out movement, even though many put that label on him.  He is in the background inspiring and motivating the actions of both leaders and followers.  

Rush is an influencer.  He is a lightning rod for liberal angst and anger.  He holds those who claim conservatism accountable (even to standards he himself can not hold).  

And that is good, right and needed.  

Newt gets bogged down in process and policy - that's what SOTH do.  His background and intellect are geared toward that debate - or should I say dialog.  He's only willing to push so far when it comes to rethorical flurishes.  Rush Limbaugh contrasted, passionately espouses conservative principles in his entertaining, informative, emotive way.  Talk radio will make you pissed off if you pay attention to what really going on.  Unfortunately more people need to get pissed.  

Simply - Rush goes further and right now we need someone WAY out front.  If anyone wastes anymore time criticizing Rush they've missed the point.  When he's right, which is often (maybe not quite 98.9%) he's exactly what we need.  When he's wrong or impractical - someone will have to be big enough to take the heat from him and others - however this scenerio is rare enough to be functionally irrelevant.  

 

You can't go on ideology

You can't go on ideology alone. You have to recognize problems and deal with them. All we got for 8 years is tax cuts and laissez-faire. People are losing jobs due to globalization and no one has done anything about it. And I am not talking of protectionism. Here is my plan My own stimulus long and short 

I can live with missing the point . . .

Rush is yesturday. There really is no conterpoint in the democratic party to Rush. There is a difference between criticizing and governing. Rush certainly has the first down. That how he rakes in millions. However, that's what the repbuclican party has been reduced to . . .  criticising and not governing.

In another post, there was the idea that the democrats were desperate when trying to tie Rush to the republican party. No, they're smart. Life belongs to doers, even those doers who fail occasionally. No one thinks Rush is a doer. He's polarizing and given the party demographics, that doesn't work out for republicans.

30% Dem, 30 Replican, 30 non-committed. Those are very rough numbers, but those percentages (or the correct ones) should be posted at the top of this site. There's a section of the republicans that think if the republican are pure enough, they'll motivate the middle. Unfortunately, pure (as what Rush represents) is distatefull to the middle. And the middle is moving left.

I defend that last statement by demographics. Reps are mainly rural, Dems are mainly urban. American is increasingly becoming more urban. That argument may seem doinky to some becuase they see the parties in terms of philosophies, but  contend it's largely a matter of style.  The future does not belong to AM radio.

Demographics from Research 2000

http://www.dailykos.com/weeklypoll/2009/2/26

22% Republicans

31% Democrats

25% Independents

5% Other

17% NonVoters

Look at 538.com:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/03/how-went-2008-election-looking-on...

I think this shows a much more wealth-stratified society than urban v.s. rural. And as Americans have gotten poorer, they have gotten more Democratic. It's really not rocket science.

Maybe you could find some sort of correlation between rural versus urban and middle class voters -- but I think that's a second order effect.

thanks for the numbers

So that's even worse for the Reps. That's less than 1/4 of americans. Every republican here should memorize those numbers. Reps are third in terms of representing Americans; you are the minority.

I think it's telling the Reps hold Rush in such high regard.

Actually RisingTide. I don't have the time, but it would also be very telling to see party affiliation by income, and of course population density. The second is very difficult. But I stick with the overarching point that philosophicle differences play a smaller part in party affiliation than what most people think.

--------

I would like to add, that as a libertarian, I'm in the 'other' catagory. sniff, sniff.

 You have to take into

 You have to take into account the characteristics of the typical attendees of the CPAC of recent years.  They are mostly students (or recent students or young Hill staffers).  A more mature attendee described it as barely more than a  political frat party of sorts with a high percentage being from Christian and/or Conservative colleges.  That's all fine.  But that kind of audience is going to react a lot more to Rush's (or Coulter's) purple rhetoric and stage histrionics than to serious, thoughtful conservative policy proposals.  The media loves it and regularly portrays CPAC as a conference of "the GOP base" or of high-level conservative activists from around the country.  That's kind of a stretch these days.

Get a clue!

Many of you seem to consider Rush as either passe or the leader of the Republican Party. Well, which is it? It is this type of intellectual inconsistently born from elitist embarrassment from having the "Average Joe" as the base of the party. It is this effete wing that has led the party to the brink of extinction. You got everything you wanted to form the party into that which you "knew" would lead to electoral success, and look at it now.

You got a "moderate" bipartisan President and Congressional "leaders" who had to be saved by conservative voters in '00 (against a dolt) and '04 (despite a war) that became punching bags unwilling to defend themselve for fear of being called mean by the Media -- which they did anyway. Then you spent more than the record revenues brought in by tiny tax rate cuts in '03 that kept the economy a float but expanded the government against Conservatives' objections. Then you got your ideal presidential candidate who got smoked by an unqualified empty suit despite having the election handed to him when the Obama-Bush bailout came up. Voting no and offering the conservative alternative, despite his ill-advised grandstanding, would have locked up a double digit win. As usual, instead of leading, he followed his Media masters and the clueless running his campaign.

Voters want partisanship; but you won't believe them because polls and the Media tell you so. In political economy, it is called revealed preferences versus stated preferences. America voted in the most partisan Congress in '06, then increased its partisanship in '08 along with the most partisan ultraleftist presidential candidate (despite a moron for VP) because voters don't want weak chicken sh*ts running the government. Your bipartisan guy was dead in the water until Palin brought in the Conservatives who propped him up to the point where the election was his for the taking. Voters chose to follow the strong, aggressive candidate despite his promise to ruin America.

Show me your evidence that any of your "Republican" strategies have been successful. Rush's speech got more notice because he validates and articulates the views of the majority of Republicans (even "moderates") unapologetically, and in a way that elevates them emotionally. Newt's policy shop is great, but it is too dense for the average American; whereas Rush presents the same ideas but in an understandable way and doesn't cower to criticism. Unabashed conservatism or liberalism wins national elections; but the country only thrives under the former.

Please, learn your lesson.

Worst Speech

Who do you think that speech and Rush's new fight with the White House, conservative activists or Rush Limbaugh?  The answer is Rush. 

For the first time late night talk shows were right.  Rush looked like a fat gangster with his stupid black shirt unbuttoned.  He was whipping his hands around and was the most arrogant SOB I have seen in a very long time. 

He had an opportunity and he blew it.  I'm not mad about too much what he said, he's typically right on the issues but he gives everyone else reason to hate him.  He is not here to help us, he is here to help himself. 

He wants controversy, he wants to fight with Steele and Obama, he wants the ratings.  The general public could have had snippits of a great communicator talk about what it means to be a conservative, but instead they got a side-show that derailed the message and instead propped up the messenger. 

My point exactly!

Another one that is too worried about what an adversarial Media says -- "fat gangster" (?!) --  instead of the message. Concern about his shirt is the type of primitive criticism that passes for serious analysis and debate by the feckless. It is also the same behavior encouraged by the Leftist's mindlessly regressive ideology: "It's OK that Obama's driving the economy off a cliff 'cuz, damn, don't he look good doing it!"

umm... that's the thing:

he's not driving the economy off a cliff. he's trying to lasso the moon and pull us out of the abyss. before we all explode.

okay, my metaphor is on crack.

No, you need to learn a lesson

1. After WWII deficits were at there largest approx 30%, but three years later those deficits were gone. Now, I'm not going to say Obama isn't going to drive the economy off the cliff, but large deficits in themselves do not do it.

2. Obama never promised to ruin America.

3. "The election was his for the taking?" Look at the news. She gave an initial boost but severly undermined him later on.

4. This is just my opinion, I think in previous years I'd mostly agree with you. The base drives the party, but I think something has changed. American has changed. After Bush everything republican just got blasted. The mindless ideology, the 30 year old propoganda, the old arguements. It was getting old, and then it really got old.

I do believe that Rush only represents himself. He has nothing to loose and everything to gain. And the Republican party is hangning on to a guy who is past his time. Yeah, he's still got twenty million listeners, but he's loosing everyone else. The republican party needs to make a choice. It really lost black, it really lost (the few) gays, it's loosing the hispanic vote, it's loosing the youth vote. Rush isn't bringing those people back, and those people are getting larger, and the old cranks who still listen to Rush (seriously) will grow smaller.

Life moves on.

 

 

Here's then lesson:

1. The deficit was retired by... wait for it....TAX RATE CUTS(!) for individuals and businesses (Tax Adjustment Act of 1945 and Revenue Acts of 1945 and 1948) that spurred real growth after the wartime economy ended, which saved us from the disastrous FDR years. The increased revenues coupled with the decreased spending and shelving of a demand economy decreased the deficit!

2. I'm using a literary device to save time. Obviously he didn't say, "I am going to ruin the economy." What he did say was "spread the wealth," which is the same thing. What he meant and promised was to increase government spending on education, health care, unions and everything else on the backs of those that produce. Lo and behold, he did exactly that and guess what unemployment up, stock market down, no one hiring, and no one lending all because he kept his promise and is propping up dead companies and the price of empty homes instead of allowing the market to take its course. Ya see why I had to use the shorter literary device?

3. It was John McCain and his clueless campaign that blew the chance that she gave him. Keeping her in a closet until it was too late magnifying an interview slip up with Couric, pulling out of Michigan prematurely, then the disastrous "suspend my campaign" to go to Washington and vote for the Obama-Bush bailout of Wall St. No. Palin didn't hurt the campaign, she was the convenient excuse that fit the Media's fictitious narrative and the McCain campaign's excuse machine.

4. Something has changed. The party has abandoned the ideological principles of conservatism that raised them from the dead. It is not coincidental that conservativism in less than a decade ('94-'03) had brought the Republican Party from moribund to within 2 or 3 election cycles of destroying the Democratic Party as a viable political force in the U.S. However, the effete elites took over again after helping the Dems force out Tom DeLay, and started their "compassionate conservatism" campaign of "bipartisanship" -- give the Media and Dems everything they wanted so they won't be mean to us -- and apologizing for having Conservatives in their party. In 5 short years, their strategy brought the whole thing crashing down to the point where we have the patron saint of affirmative action pretending to run the country while the ultraleft whackos (i.e. mainstream Democrats) collapse its social and financial institutions.

All the evidence points to the Reagan-Limbaugh strategy being superior to the Bush-Frum strategy. The problem is that the "moderates" have adopted the old leftist saw that communism would work if we'd just give it time. Much like the leftist ideologies of fascism, commmunism, and socialism and all of its inherent social pathologies (i.e. racism), they have been proven to fail by the weight and evidence of history, but the controlling elites can't accept not having control. This is the dynamic that we see playing out between "moderate" Republican elites (i.e. losers) and Conservatives (i.e. winners); also, the Democrats and America.

Why do you think the Dems are targeting Limbaugh? Because he is the one person in the Republican Party who they fear. Do you think they fear the surrender monkeys of the effete elites. They know that Rush acts more like a Democrat strategically in that he is always on offense, gives no quarter, and takes no prisoners.

Elevating Limbaugh to the head of the party is a major tactical error by the Obamunists. It may have some effect in the short-run by clearing out the deadwood from the Republican Party, but they won't flock to the Democrat Party as it is currently stands. Rush's brand of populism resonates with the American spirit, not the free-riders that the Left's brand attracts. 

The problem the Dems have is motivating free-riders to vote. It worked this time with the Media creation of B. Hussein, but once their economy tanks and the foreign leaders quit laughting and roll over him, what are they gonna do? People will look for strength. The one left standing with a consistent message that was right all along and predicted the whole debacle will be Limbaugh. That's why the leftists want the "Fairness Doctrine" ASAP, so that they can control the one medium where this unfettered message exists before the fall occurs.

rebuttle

1. US bounced back to faced because every industrialized country was in ruins. We were a manufacturing society still, and still have people who saved. Everything after the war was made in the US. That undercuts my arguement a little about deficients which I don't mind so much. I'm a staunch fiscal conservative; however, I do believe that while spending a crap load of money, Obama is going to try to cut as well. Can he do it? I don't know. I think Dems in congress are his worst enemy there, but that's all speculation.

2. He was talking about narrowing the income dispertity in the US. Tell me you're for that? In a free market, what happens is what happens, but when you look at countries with large income dispearity, things aren't good.

3. McCain did run a bad campaign, but I outright disagree with you on Palin. She has her talents, but she'll not high office anytime soon. Time will only tell.

4. You're talking about the party, I'm talking about the US. There are great conservative principles. I don't think they ever get old, and I agree with you with Replicans not representing conservatives. However, Rush doesn't represent tomorrow's conservatism. That's merely an opionion, but I  . . . can't believe anything contrary.

And that talk of communist and other shit. I'm not a Dem for a reason, but I don't think they're communist. I merely disagree with their approach to solving problems. Ranting republicans (I'm assuming you're a republican) like Rush are yesturday.

Good bye.

it's people like yourself that remind me

why conservatives are deserving of respect and a place at the table.

One quick and easy thing for Obama to do to cut costs is to move gov't jobs away from NOVA and to hard hit places elsewhere. More jobs, more construction, less gov't pay due to lower cost of living.

I am a Conservative who happens to be a Republican.

"And that talk of communist and other shit. I'm not a Dem for a reason, but I don't think they're communist."

There are none more blind that those that will not see.

You need to be more cynical. Accepting the unthinkable to you, that the Democrat Party is the new home of the old Left (i.e. fascists, communist, and socialists) will serve you well in your disagreements with their approach to solving problems. Removing those blinders is what reveals the big picture and seeing the political landscape as it really is. Go skim the Communist Party USA and American Socialist Party websites, Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals, the Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto, and read up on political business cycles and corporate states and tell me how these are different than the current policy goals and tactics of the Democrats in power now.

There will come a time when the Blue Dogs will bolt and build a coalition with Republicans and Conservatives as in the '80s. That is the new politics that is going to emerge rather than that which you envision. That time may be sooner than you think.

Oh, and BTW, the Gini Index of income disparity was flat during the last 8 years, which is what you say you wanted. However, then there were complaints of stagnant real incomes and a jobless recovery. You can't have it both ways. Income disparities are narrowed by bringing down the top (e.g. Europe), which stagnates wealth creation, economic growth, and innovation. The most "egalitarian" societies are totalitarian states and the Sub-Sahara. The average of the lowest quintile of incomes in the U.S. is middle to upper class in most of the rest of the world. Which of these models is it that you desire?

I need to be more cynical ?????????????????

That's a life lesson for success.

------------------------------------------------------------------

You were talking in another post about debating the issues. Rush doesn't debate. He tells. And the 'Old' republican party tells, they don't debate. If you disagree, you're an SOB-pinko-queer. The kids growing up today, are multi-consumers. And the strong-arm, absolutist scare tactics don't work. That's why no-one cared about Ayers during the last election. It smelled like BS scare tactics.

The is country has been a two party country no for some time. I seriously don't believe were heading towards communism. Yes, there are wacko radicals (on both sides), but you're average personal couldn't give a fig life about ideology. And now, with youtube, wiki, inet and easy sources of info, the same arguements that Nixon used, then Reagan used, then Bush used . . . it starts looking like a gimmick.

HEY EVERYONE, FORGET SCHOOL, JUST LISTEN TO RUSH!  ALL HAIL RUSH!

Hey, if you can't be right, be confident!

"Fish in a barrel"

"Rush doesn't debate. He tells."

No. He gives his opinion and educates, and leaves the rest to his listeners. Government "tells."

"And the strong-arm, absolutist scare tactics don't work."

Yes they do; otherwise there would never have been a Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, unions, or Obama if they didn't.

"That's why no-one cared about Ayers during the last election. It smelled like BS scare tactics."

And they were all proven wrong now, weren't they? Buyers remorse is already setting in for these voters.

"...you're average personal couldn't give a fig life about ideology."

I know, that's why they have to be educated; and why the Left has prevented it via a failed public education system, take over of University faculty, and popular media. Knowledge is their enemy.

"And now, with youtube, wiki, inet and easy sources of info, the same arguements that Nixon used, then Reagan used, then Bush used . . . it starts looking like a gimmick."

I don't know what arguments you mean, but it twas the Obama campaign that organized boycots of a Chicago radio station, organized "Truth Squads" in Missouri, evicted journalists from their press plane, trashed private citizens (Joe the Plumber, Sarah Palin, Rick Santelli, Jim Cramer) when anything critical was said about him, and set up a war room to counter Rush Limbaugh .

Oh, and wasn't it the same campaign that was hailed by the talking heads on both sides for its brilliant use of "youtube, wiki, inet"  to build lists of donors (legal and illegal), coordinate strategy with media networks and bloggers each morning, and benefits by a web of Soros' funded 527s and Media Matters? Or maybe that was Nixon, Reagan, and Bush.

Grow up, Kid. The opposite of cynical is gullible. I'll take my chances with the former. You've obviously made your choice as well.

oh? was it HIM that crowned a man KING in OUR UNITED

STATES CAPITAL????

A man that has dedicated himself to destroying American Individualism?

(yes, I'm pulling your leg. The guy runs the Washington Times, is a cult leader, and goes by the name Reverend Moon. and those were republicans crowning him).

That's your response?

From The Washington Post

"The Rev. Walter Fauntroy, a Democrat who was the District's congressional delegate for 10 years, was the event's master of ceremonies and recipient of a 'National Crown of Peace' award."

"The prominent role played by Davis, Fauntroy and Stallings, among others, reflects Moon's efforts to reach out to the black community. Jenkins said many African American clergy members 'have become strong allies' of Moon because they sympathize with the 'mistreatment and labeling' he has faced."

I don't know what this event has to do with anything, but some whack job duping a few politicians into thinking that they were going to some peace ceremony doesn't seem to be relevant. The Bush Administration had nothing to do with it, and it was Reagan's Justice Dept. that put him in jail for tax evasion.

This is the type of knucklehead crap that passes for substantive analysis among the Obamunists. I think I've proven my point. I'm done here.

Dude (joe. c),

You're such a stereotype it's hard to know if you're not just bored and making this up. I amost feel inclined to reply to your last post, but I'll just laugh it off instead.

Real or unreal, you make the call. I am amused though.

Dude!

I'll have a #7 with fries and a Sprite.

I'm sure you'll win over the moderates

With ideas like that.

Maybe if you just keep shouting "Soros!" "Socialist" and "Reagan" you'll get somewhere. I doubt it though.

Didn't you know

All you need to do to win over moderates is to say mega dittos. 

And instead of focusing on why Obama's policies are terrible, Rush thinks we should talk about Rush.  I guess in a really wierd way distracting the president to focus on Rush does make Obama look petty and shows that he has his eye off the ball.... ......

But the key to winning over moderates is more Mike Savage - more Hannity and more Rush - because I know - speaking for someone in New England that my fellow friends who are moderates LOVE to listen to Rush and talk radio - they really speak to working class moderates - because they talk about Karl Marx and Socialists and Feminazi's.  It works out wicked good. 

read krugman's book

the conscience of a liberal.

it's good about shit like this.

Joe C: Never have I read a more coherent and cogent post...

...on the practical situation we Republicans, the Republican party, and our beloved Republic faces at the present time.

All would do will to copy, paste and save this post on the desk-top of your computers, as I have, ready to reproduce it at a moment's notice.

ex animo

Photobucket

davidfarrar

Thanks!

I'm humbled, which is saying something.

Joe C: I'm with David -- Great thread

One of the most embarrassing and frustrating things about McCain was his complete inability and discomfort when called upon to talk about conservative ideas. Imagine if we'd had a candidate who could talk about individual freedom and its ties to free enterprise, for example, like Rush.

My point exactly!

You win elections by turning out your base and by convincing independant voters and some cross over Dems that you have the best strategy to move the country forward. 

Rush will only help excite the base and even that he's not exciting anymore.  Yes I agree ordinary Republicans like him, ordinary Republicans also like Fox News and Hannity - but Fox News - Hannity and Rush don't help convince independant voters. 

It's not about changing our message, it's about not being an arrogant prick.  It's not about giving up our convictions its about looking forward and finding someone else to lead the cause. 

We shouldn't let a painkilling addict arrogant SOB be our messenger. 

It's not about being worried about the 'adversarial media', it's being worried about that message ever getting out.  And stop blaming the media - that is loser talk - 'ohhh the big bad liberal drive by media is mean to conservatives - we should take our ball and go home'.  Deal with the media don't blame them. 

Rush will not help us.  Rush will only help himself why dont' you get that? 

Rush is Jim Jones and the

Rush is Jim Jones and the Conservatives are the People's Temple.  Personally I don't care if Rush drives the Right over a cliff but I still find it sad.  People are trying to show you how egomaniacal the guy is and you can't see it. Fine. Take the cool aid. Rush can do no wrong.

Siiiigggghhhh!!!

Such a display of misunderstanding, projection, and revisionism in such a small space. This is what Conservatives have to try and persuade, yet all Leftists have to do is match their tie and socks. If only you would hold Democrats to the same standards as Conservatives, maybe we could have an intelligent debate. Apparently, having the weight of evidence and history isn't enough for some people.

Rush and Obama are both loving every minute.

Here's what is happening:

Obama is like a lion that has brought down the great beast of the GOP and is feasting upon it. Rush is a hyena that has come upon the predator and his carcass and also wants to partake.

Normally, that would be a problem and a major dustup would ensue. But in this case the lion only wants to eat the front of the beast where all the juicy votes are, and the hyena only wants to munch on the rump where all the dollars are. The lion doesn't even want the dollars, and the votes mean nothing to the hungry hyena, as long as he gets plenty of tasty dollars.

Now the lion and the hyena will give a menacing growl or a quick swipe of the paw at the other just to keep everyone in their proper place. And that will be fun to watch for all of us in the bush with our binoculars.

Eventually, the two carnivors will get down to sucking the marrow from the clean bones. Then they will fall happily asleep, each with a full belly smile. And the great beast of the GOP will be reduced to a big stinky pile of feces and a distant memory of all the fun the lion and the hyena shared.

The problem Joe C

The problem Joe C is that I agree that we as conservatives have gotten away from some key points of governance like smaller government and lower spending.  The problem however is that RUSH himself over the past 8 years SUPPORTED those higher budgets and only during the last primary did he start to say hey.. maybe we spent too much. 

Sheesh!

No he didn't. Limbaugh was the greatest legitimate critic -- as opposed to the ad hominems -- of anti-Republican policies put forth by Republican elites for the last 8 years -- Sarbanes-Oxley, Kennedy education bill, Medicare Part D, a new Homeland security department, not making tax rate cuts permanent, increased spending, the compassionate war strategy, the pull out in Fallujah, giving the British control of Basra, Harriett Meiers, McCain-Lieberman, McCain-Feingold, minimum wage, Obama-Bush bailouts, John McCain as presidential candidate, et. al. No one remembers (or wants to remember) these. He was, however, a defender of President Bush, the military, The Surge, and American ideals in general because no one else in the White House would do it for themselves. It's when he "stopped carrying the water" after Nov. '06 that the "moderates" running the party imploded under the weight of their own fecklessness and insecurity. I will admit that he has tunnel vision when it comes to abortion and illegal immigration as viable wedge issues.

It is debunking these "daily talking points" arguments -- the newest being these "Limbaugh as RNC chairman" and the out-of-context "WWII 30% of GDP deficit" memes -- that drive those of us with more than a brainstem crazy. If we could only debate policy and results instead of these inanities, maybe the country wouldn't be in this mess.

The bottom line is that Conservatives were right all along and correctly predicted everything that has happened, and the rest ignored history's lessons and clung to a failed ideology that is the only known counterfactual to Darwinian evolution (i.e. survival of the fittest).

Well I am convinced

Mega-Dittos - I will now forever only listen to what Rush has to say and follow his every lead.  He is the savior to the conservative movement and to Republicans as a whole. 

He is perfect.  He is a perfect leader for us.  He is a master communicator who will unite Blue Dog Dems and convince moderates and independants that the conservative movement is the place to be. 

How could I be so blind to not have seen it?

Mega Dittos Mega Dittos.  

http://www.marklevinshow.com/

http://www.marklevinshow.com/levin-vs-frum/

the audio is quite fascinating.