Why I Don't Think It's Over For McCain, Even Absent A Game-Changer

 

The conventional wisdom these days is that McCain can't win absent some game-changing event or Hail Mary pass on his part. I don't agree. I think the odds are against McCain. But every time I hear pundits describe the need for a game changer I am reminded of Charlie Cook's repeated assertions from Summer 2004 that Bush would not win re-election absent something on the order of dumping Cheney from the ticket.
 
Politics are especially volatile, and while it is important to remember that McCain is behind, it is also important to remember that he's only down seven or eight in a year where his ticket lost three debates and will likely lose a fourth, the President of his party has an approval of around 25%, the stock market shed $3 trillion in value, and the economy is looking like something from a David Cronenberg film.
 
But we were spoiled in 2004, when the polls pretty much got it right. Let's look at previous polling results
 
I lifted this chart of tracking polls from RCP for 10/23/2000 (via the Internet Archive):
Tracking
Polls - 10/23/00
Bush
Up 4.7%
Bush
Gore
RCP
Tracking

- 10/23
45.9
41.2
Battleground
- 10/20
44.0
40.0
Rasmussen
- 10/23
46.7
41.3
Zogby/MSNBC
- 10/22
45.0
41.0
Gallup/CNN
- 10/22
50.0
41.0
ABC
News/WP- 10/22
47.5
45.0

And this chart for early August of 2000:

Poll
Date
Bush
Gore
Spread/Bush

Most
Recent Average

50.2%

41.9%

+8.3
LA
Times
8/11-8/13

53%

43%

+10

Zogby

8/11-8/13

43%

40%

+3

Gallup/CNN/USA Today

8/11-8/12

56%

40%

+16

Newsweek

8/10-8/11

51%

43%

+8

NBC
News/WSJ

8/10-8/11

47%

44%

+3

CBS
News

8/10

48%

38%

+10
CNN/Time
8/9-8/10

55%

42%

+13

Fox
News

8/9-8/10

46%

43%

+3
ABC
News/Wash Post
8/8-8/10
53%
44%
+9

Zogby

8/4-8/6

52%

35%

+17

CBS
News

8/4-8/6

52%

38%

+14
ABC
News/Wash Post
8/4-8/6
54%
40%
+14

Gallup/CNN/USA Today

8/4-8/5

56%

40%

+16

Newsweek

8/3-8/4

52%

43%

+9

Battleground

8/2-8/3

52%

35%

+17

Zogby

7/28-7/30

47%

40%

+7
LA
Times
7/27-7/29

52%

47%

+5
ABC
News/Wash Post
7/26-7/29
53%
42%
+11

NBC
News/WSJ

7/27-7/28

47%

42%

+5

Newsweek

7/27-7/28

49%

44%

+5
CNN/Time
7/26-7/27

56%

41%

+15

Fox
News

7/26-7/27

46%

39%

+7

Gallup/CNN/USA Today

7/25-7/26

54%

40%

+14

And this chart showing the final polls from October and November of 2000:

 

Poll

Date

Bush

Gore

Lib

Ref

Green

Spread

RCP Poll Composite

46.8

43.6

0.5

0.8

3.8

Bush + 3.2

 

Battleground - FINAL

11/5-11/6

45.5

40.5

NA

0

3.5

Bush + 5

Gallup - FINAL 11/5-11/6 48 46 NA 1 4 Bush + 2

Rasmussen - FINAL

11/4-11/6

48.9

39.8

0.8

1.0

4.3

Bush + 9.1

Inv. Bus. Daily - FINAL 11/4-11/6 47.9 46.0 0.2 0.6 3.7 Bush + 1.9
CBS News 11/4-11/6 44 45 NA 1 4 Gore + 1

Zogby - FINAL

11/4-11/6

46

48

0.6

0.5

5

Gore + 2

ABC News/WP - FINAL

11/3-11/5

48

45

NA

1

3

Bush + 3

CBS News/NY Times 11/1-11/4 47 42 NA 1 5 Bush + 5
NBC News/WSJ 11/2-11/3 47 44 NA 1 4 Bush + 3
Marist 11/1-11/2 49 44 NA 1 2 Bush + 5
Fox News 11/1-11/2 43 43 NA 1 3 TIE

National Journal

10/31-11/2

47

40

NA

1

4

Bush +7

CBS/NY Times 10/29-10/31 44 43 NA 2 4 Bush +1
Gallup 10/27-10/29 47 44 NA 1 2 Bush +3

Battleground

10/24-10/29

44

34

NA

1

4

Bush +5

Zogby

10/25-10/28

44

43

1

1

5

Bush +1

Rasmussen

10/25-10/28

46.1

41.5

0.9

1.2

3.8

Bush +4.6

ABC/Wash Post 10/25-10/27 47 46 NA 1 4 Bush +1

CNN/Time

10/25-10/26

49

43

NA

1

3

Bush +6

Gallup 10/19-10/21 50 41 NA 1 3 Bush +9

Rasmussen

10/18-10/21

46.0

41.3

1

1

3

Bush +4.7

CBS News/NY Times

10/18-10/21

46

44

NA

1

4

Bush +2

ABC/Wash Post

10/18-10/20

48

45

NA

1

3

Bush +3

Zogby 10/18-10/20 45 44 0 1 4 Bush +1

Fox News

10/18-10/19

45

42

NA

0

4

Bush +3

Battleground

10/16-10/19

44

39

NA

1

5

Bush +5

Gallup

10/13-10/15

47

44

NA

1

3

Bush +3

NBC News/WSJ

10/13-10/15

48

42

NA

1

5

Bush +6

Zogby

10/13-10/15

43

42

1

1

5

Bush +1

ABC News/Wash Post

10/12-10/15

48

44

NA

1

4

Bush +4

Battleground

10/10-10/15

43

40

NA

1

4

Bush +3

Rasmussen

10/11-10/14

46

40

1

1

4

Bush +6

CNN/Time

10/12-10/13

48

43

NA

0

4

Bush +5

Rasmussen

10/8-10/10

45

40

1

1

4

Bush +5

Zogby

10/8-10/10

43

42

1

1

4

Bush +1

Hotline/Bullseye Poll

10/7-10/10

41

40

1

1

5

Bush +1

Gallup

10/7-10/9

47

44

NA

1

3

Bush +3

Battleground

10/4-10/9

43

41

NA

1

4

Bush +2

ABC News/Wash Post

10/6-10/9

48

45

NA

0

3

Bush +3

CBS News

10/6-10/9

44

44

NA

2

4

TIE

CNN/Time

10/4-10/5

47

45

NA

1

3

Bush +2

Fox News

10/4-10/5

42

43

NA

1

4

Gore +1

Gallup

10/3-10/5

44

45

NA

1

4

Gore +1

Zogby

10/3-10/5

42

44

1

1

5

Gore +2

Rasmussen

10/3-10/5

44.9

40.9

0.7

0.8

3.6

Bush +4.0

Battleground

10/1-10/4

43

41

NA

1

4

Bush +2

ABC News/Wash Post

9/28-10/1

46

48

NA

1

3

Gore +2

Marist

9/27-10/1

47

45

NA

1

2

Bush +2

CBS News/NY Times 9/27-10/1 43 44 NA 1 2 Gore +1

 

Tell me, looking at those polls, what would your prediction for the 2000 election have been? What in these polls would lead you to believe anything other than that Bush would win, probably by a substantial margin (Answer: Following the tracking polls closely, and noticing the Gore surge at the end).

How about these taken from 1996 (taken from here):

Poll Clinton (pC) Dole (pD)
     
CBS/NY Times 53% 35%
Pew Research 49% 36%
ABC/Washington Post 0.51 0.39
Harris 0.51 0.39
NBC/Wall St. Journal 0.49 0.37
CNN/USA Today/Gallup 0.52 0.41
Hotline/Battleground 0.45 0.36
Reuters/Zogby 0.44 0.37
     
Actual Vote 0.493 0.407

Wouldn't you have guessed at least a double-digit win for Clinton/Gore?

Yes, polls have error margins. But the whole purpose of aggregating polls is that the error margins should cancel each other out. When all of the polls are on one side or another of the actual result, something else is probably going on other than sampling error.

Now what that something else is can be a source of considerable debate. Some will attribute it in these cases simply to bad luck: a campaign finance scandal breaking late against Clinton and a DUI arrest breaking against Bush. But I've always been skeptical that this was what really caused the late polls to break so heavily against Bush and Clinton.  After all, the final tracking polls still showed Bush ahead consistently (save Zogby, who you will note pretty well nailed both elections), even after the story broke.

If you look at the polls, they pretty much got Clinton's vote share in 1996 and Bush's in 2000.  What happened is that they underestimated Gore's and Dole's vote share.  My interpretation has always been that in both elections, the voters were confronted with a likeable agent of change against a dull, dour candidate who could largely be affiliated with the status quo (remember Dole's "bridge to the past" theme?).  They liked the change agent, but for different reasons had real doubts about him.  Sound familiar to anyone?

Would a similar pattern occur in 2008?  Who knows.  This election might be more like 1980, where last minute voters became comfortable with the change agent, and broke heavily toward him.  That is certainly the goal of Obama's massive ad buy right before the election.  It's probably where I'd put my money if I had to, quite frankly.

And to be certain, Obama is in better shape than Bush was in 2000, though he never quite hit the peaks Bush hit in 2000 either.  He isn't in as good of shape as Clinton in 1996 (at least not yet).  But if the economy stops looking like Armageddon is near and the Ayers/ACORN angle gets traction, Obama's edge might fade by a point or two.  Then, the 65+, uneducated, white independent voters who make up the bulk of the undecideds might hold the balance of the election in their hands.  Not certain that's great news for Obama.

Like I said, I expect Obama to win.  I think his odds are actually probably better than what he's presently trading at on InTrade.  But if you've been following politics as long as I have, you know that the polls are sometimes off in a manner that can't just be explained by error margins.  In 2000, Republicans were supposed to do quite a bit better in the Presidential and Senate races than they ended up doing.  In 2002, Democrats were supposed to do better in Senate races than they ended up doing.  In 2006, Democrats won the House with 7% of the nationwide popular vote, when of the seventy-five or so polls taken from July of 2006 through election day, seven (7) showed Republicans trailing by seven points or less (while 23 polls in that time period showed Democratic leads of 15 points or more).  The Democrats' lead that year from October 15 through election day was 14.5% -- nearly double what they actually got (It's also interesting to note that only 6 generic polls all year so far have shown leads for the Dems of 15 points or more).

So while I do think McCain is unlikely to win, I don't think his victory is contingent upon some Hail Mary pass or game-changer.  While something like that certainly could help, all that needs to be true is that the undecideds break against the charming change agent.  It's happened before. 

And that's without questioning whether the electorate will really be 40% Dem, 27% Rep, and 30% Indep, as some polls are assuming.  I don't know if there's a "shy tory" effect at work or not, but I'll be shocked if the electorate flips from D+2 in 2006 to D+13 today.  But hey, I've been shocked before . . .

 

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Previous Years: The media pretended it cared.

 This year - not so much. So any trust in the polls that the media essentially organize for their own amusement seems inherently suspect.

In addition, some of Obama's ad buys are extremely whack. 

Wonder what McCain's internals are showing in IA

Hard to imagine why he's spending so much time in a state where several polls have him down by double digits.

I'd be interested in your honest analysis of the Ayers angle, Sean. If you feel this is a legitimate issue and why.

It Depends What You Mean

about the Ayers angle.  I think it is obviously a legitimate question, and I don't think we have to take Obama at his word on this about the nature of their relationship (especially since, though I'm not 100% certain what his early representations about there relationship was, it seems to be something more than what he initially represented).  Quite frankly, I think it is appalling that the media didn't take more interest in this early on, and that Stanley Kurtz is the one who has to go to the University of Chicago and dig through the Annenberg files.

Just to put the shoe on the other foot, if McCain had associations, even casually, with Bobby Frank Cherry (who bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham), do you think it would be a legitimate issue?  Of course it would be.  Even if McCain disavowed those terrorist's acts and said that he believed that they had been rehabilitated at the time they worked together, we would at least expect some serious questioning of this (actually, I suspect there would be a feeding frenzy and probably the end of the McCain campaign, even for a casual association).  I'm not saying you have to buy it, but it would certainly be a fair inquiry for the media to see how deep the association went, and the other side would rightly make hay out of it.  And Republicans would make the same types of responses about it that the Democrats make today, and then people would have to sort it out.

For me, the Ayers thing has some salience for two reasons.  First, he's just the icing on the cake for a whole panoply of radical, unsavory characters in Obama's past, who seem quite at odds with Obama's moderate demeanor he is presenting to the public.  Bill Ayers alone is one thing, just as Jeremiah Wright alone is one thing, just as Michael Pfleger and James Meeks and his "association" with the New Party alone is one thing (I could, of course, go on).  You take them together and it becomes one "crazy uncle" too many for me.  Even then, if he had twenty years of service in the Senate (or even more than two when he wasn't running for POTUS), with a well-defined voting record, it might not bother me that much.  But given that he's still pretty much a blank slate, what I'm left with is a guy who presents a nice, moderate, standard-fare liberal demeanor (or maybe even to the right of that), with a past that, from what I can tell, is almost completely at odds with that demeanor.  Again, I don't want to overstate the importance of these associations, but it certainly seems to weight against him in my decision making calculus.

Given that I'm unlikely to vote for a Democrat to the left of Evan Bayh or Mark Warner under any circumstances (I'd at best stay home), it's probably a moot point.  But that's my two cents.

Thanks for your reply...a quick response

Understanding that our opinions and perceptions are shaped through the prism(s) of the views we already hold, I understand what you're saying (although I disagree with you) and think the McCain campaign is doing it's best to exploit that, albeit apparently unsuccessfully.

I find it curious, however, that you think Ayers and Wright weren't  covered in the media. In particular, the Wright video ran end.less.ly on all major media for far longer than it deserved.

On Ayers: Long before Obama met him Ayers had moved on, gotten a PhD, written over a dozen books, was an advisor to Mayor Daley, and was a professor at U of I and happened to live in Obama's neighborhood. In other words, he was pretty mainstrean when Obama met him. So they were on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge board together - that's pretty far removed from "pallin' around with terrorists."  Worth noting is that the CAC was was funded by a foundation belonging to the late Walter Annenberg, the billionaire Republican philanthropist who was Nixon's ambassador to the U.K.  Annenberg and his wife, Leonore, gave the CAC $50 million in the 90's. Leonore has sinced endorsed McCain. Republican  Arnold Weber was also on the same board with Ayers and has donated to John McCain - if this guilt by association is true, then why is John McCain accepting money from unsavory characters who "palled around" with terrorists?

On Wright: This has been covered ad nauseam. I know your background  includes experiences in religious services of different faiths. Have you really never heard of  "damnation" as a condemnation rather than an expletive? God "damns" things in the bible. And that is the context in which Rev Wright was speaking. Consider this: in regards to slavery, would God bless America or damn America?

I Have Shaken Hands With Ayers, Therefore I Am Terrorist!

Caroline,

Thank you for succinctly pointing out why it is wrong for McCain to pursue this 'Terrorist by Association' label. In fact, it is extremely dishonorable in my opinion, and McCain should never have OK'd those ads.

Hell, there are pictures of McCain hugging the Viet Cong bastard that tortured him all those years in Vietnam, by the same logic, stronger in this case of previous history between these two men no less, are we to assume that McCain condones and enjoys torture? What about the Keating 5?

My advice to the McCain campaign is to quit sinking to all time lows in order to get elected. Some of the crap that McCain has endorsed is unbelievable (I.e. their campaign ads). For a campaign touting their candidates honor and service, they do nothing but bring dishonor on themselves with almost every new TV spot...

A few quick points

I thought Ayers has been undercovered, with right wingers forced to do work that MSM investigative journalists should be doing; he's all I was talking about in that section of the response.  Wright was obviously covered extensively, though again, I'm pretty surprised it took them until March of 2008 to catch on.  I'm glad they did wait because I'm much happier to be facing off until Obama than Hillary, both today and after he wins the election, but that's a story for another day.

Again, if McCain had served on boards and launched campaigns with the Birmingham Church bombers, I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't think it was an issue, regardless of how many PhD's and books the guy had written.  As would I.  And I think there's a big difference between accepting a campaign donation or endorsement from someone and having a pretty extensive working relationship with him.  And with regard to all of these jokers, one of them by themselves is one thing, but at some point the whole really is greater than the sum of its parts (the GD America thing doesn't bother me that much in-and-of-itself, but in the greater context of his other comments, and in the greater context of his embrace of liberation theology (which with my Catholic background, I have pretty extensive experience), its a cause for concern.   But I recognize I'm an outlier there, even among conservatives).

Regardless, I think these are all certainly legitimate issues.  The American people can decide for themselves how to interpret them, but there's nothing wrong with letting the two campaigns try to persuade them.

Well, again, seeing things through our prism...

...you see Obama as a "blank slate", someone not to be trusted, someone to be suspicious of, and someone who can't be taken at his word,  even if there is no evidence to contradict what he says, because he doesn't "feel" right to you. Unsurprisingly, I do not.

They both were asked to be on a board. And you say that association is suspicious. Yet, those same people who asked a terrorist to be on their board gave money to and supported Reagan and McCain. You can't have it both ways.

The Ends Justify the Means, Is What You're Really Saying...

Sean, you show great dexterity in obsfucating the real issue...

If you can not see that labeling a candidate as terrorist on national TV is wrong (I.e. worst) way to 'persuade the public', then you are a lost cause when it comes to moral issues.

The ends justify the means, huh... Let me guess where you stand on torture?

What candidate was labeled a terrorist??

this is a classic slime tactic of the left.  Of course no one labeled BO a terrorist and you know it.  So get off of that,  squirrel.   What it does demonstrate about BarryO is extreme poor judgement in associating w/such U.S. hating vermin.  The question being posed is, "do we want someone w/such poor judgement in the POTUS position?"  

Its ok to join in the conversation but don't try to shift if off into the gutter.  DD

Um, yeah, they did...here's the video

Link to the video here.

So, it's ok to join in the conversation, but don't try to impugn others because you are uninformed.

I'm speaking of people here...

...participating on this site.  Not some dnc paid plant at a McCain rally.  But since we're now on that subject, do you really believe that was a conservative or McCain/Palin supporter shouting that garbage at the McCain rally? Pls Caroline, lets not be naive about the depths that democrats will sink, ok?      Thanks. DD 

Oh, those was a "DNC plants" at the rallies? How quaint.

Wrong.

Yes, I do believe that the rabid right are the ones screaming the threats at the hate-fests that Palin seems to enjoy so much.

Speaking of naive, you seem to have no clue about the "depths to which [Republicans] will sink. Open your eyes, DD.

The only "hate fest" comes from you leftists

you always accuse your opponets of doing exactly what your side always engages in.  That is making false accusations against your guy, trying to silence the opposition, and/or suppressing the vote.  Republicans can't get away with "dirty tricks" like Democrats can because the rules as laid out by the media and academia are different for them than it is for Democrats.

The mere fact you accuse Sarah Palin of a "hate fest" is mere proof oy my claim.  Meanwhile you would never condemn those little Nutroot bastards who wear t-shirts that call Sarah Palin a cunt.

Also, I wonder why Drudge treats 1 pt shifts for McCain

as "breaking" news....trying to create a false sense of momentum so a big campaign change (firing Rick Davis or Steve Schmidt?) doesn't seem like yet another desperate ploy?

Oh, and Drudge completely ignores the new ABC poll showing Obama up 53-43, but whatever, it's not like he's a legitimate source.

I think

It's extremely unlikely that Davis or Schmidt gets fired at this point.  Then again, I didn't think that McCain's response to the economic meltdown would be to run around like a chicken with his head cut off, so who knows.

Very hard to predict.

In fact, I've begun applying the Constanza Rule to the McCain campaign. Think about the expected response and then be prepared for the exact opposite.

RE: Also, I wonder why Drudge treats 1 pt shifts for McCain

Bill Kristol is a perplexing columnist, naive/clueless at one level (e.g. his pre-Iraq invasion comments) but sometimes surprisingly clever / insightful too.  His "McCain Should Fire His Campaign" suggestion in the NY Times makes one hell of a lot more sense than continuing down the tired Ayers/Rezko/Wright path.

I don't think McCain can erase the current 7-8 point deficit in just three weeks. Maybe two months worth of relentlessly negative "celebrity" type ads could do the trick, but McCain does not have enough time for that. The only person since 1934 who has managed to dig himself out of a hole this deep and this close to the election was Reagan in 1980, but the Gipper also needed the additional boost of a prime time TV debate to pull it off.  So McCain will essentially have to hope there will be a major foreign policy crisis between now and November 4.

In the meantime, he could do essentially what Kristol and David Yepsen [ http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20081012/OPINION01/810120320 ] are proposing.

Obama is going to buy a primetime TV slot for a lengthy infomercial. McCain could use some of his remaining budget to do the same thing, and use it for a positive, calm presidential-style address. Let's have some positive facts about how McCain and Republicans would fix the economy.

 

 

Bill Kristol is a buffoon.

eom

Well I can agree with that

I mean he was McCain's earliest supporters for president in 2000.  He promoted M Cain because he "likeable", "a maverick" and "a man who could reach out to moderate and consrevative-leaning Democrats and Independents" and he finally got what he wanted, no he is upset with it.  I really can't stand inside-the-beltway elitist pseudoconservatives.

Hmmm... Why do you suppose

Hmmm... Why do you suppose that Gallup all of a sudden changed the way that they are reporting the polls?

According to RCP:

The Gallup organization has taken the unusual step in its Gallup Daily Tracking Poll of releasing two sets of "Likely Voters" results.

Likely Voter Estimates

Obama's current advantage is slightly less when estimating the preferences of likely voters, which Gallup will begin reporting on a regular basis between now and the election. Gallup is providing two likely voter estimates to take into account different turnout scenarios.

The first likely voter model is based on Gallup's traditional likely voter assumptions, which determine respondents' likelihood to vote based on how they answer questions about their current voting intention and past voting behavior. According to this model, Obama's advantage over McCain is 50% to 46% in Oct. 9-11 tracking data.


The second likely voter estimate is a variation on the traditional model, but is only based on respondents' current voting intention. This model would take into account increased voter registration this year and possibly higher turnout among groups that are traditionally less likely to vote, such as young adults and racial minorities (Gallup will continue to monitor and report on turnout indicators by subgroup between now and the election). According to this second likely voter model, Obama has a 51% to 45% lead over McCain.

 

RealClearPolitics, however, in their daily report is using an average of Gallup's two Likely Voters results - Obama 52, McCain 43.5 (Obama +8.5). If one is a lead of 4, and the other is a lead of 6, how do you get an average lead of 8.5?!

New Ohio poll

McCain is +2 in Ohio according to the most accurate polling service in Ohio despite all other polling services giving Obama a lead anywhere from +2 to +5 per RCP. I'll believe the U. of C., which suggests that the polling from other states may be off from 4-7 points as well.

The Ohio Poll : "...since 1994 The Ohio Poll has projected Election Day winners in 34 of 34 statewide contests polled."