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Does a Leftist's Lies Matter? Pelosi-nocchio Says no Way!
There are classic lies. There's "Mom, my invisible friend broke the window, not me." Of course, we all have heard, "I didn't see any cookies." Then there's that ever favorite, "No, officer, I didn't know I was speeding." And who can forget that time worn, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica."
But these days the American left has puffed itself up as the keeper of truths, the sacred protectors of America's soul. And, since we all know the fable of rocks and glass houses, we must then realize that all leftists imagine that they simply don't violate truth. They are paragons of it, to be sure. Not a lie should cross our lips, they contend, for it if does the presence of that lie is enough to abrogate our very Americanness.
The truth, you see, is of acclaimed importance to the self-anointed high priests of truth on the left these days. And they have their Messiah as a shining example of that sitting today in the White House. He is the one we've been waiting for. The light. The truth. The way.
At least, this is their delusional self-assessment, anyway.
So, I am wondering about the following: does it matter that one of the left's most exalted leaders is a blatant liar?
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has made of herself only one of two things over the “torture” issue, and neither of those things is good. She is either a liar, or an utterly disgraceful incompetent of no principles whatever.
As report after report is revealed of what and when the Speaker of the House knew about the so-called torture of prisoners held by the Bush administration, at least one fact is becoming crystal clear. She and other members of Congress did, indeed, know of what was going on when it was going on.
Paul Kane of the Washington Post is only the latest to show that Congress was made well aware of the treatment that Bush officials had directed to be carried out on terroist prisoners. In his May 9 report, Kane tells us that Michael Sheehy, Pelosi's top aid, had attended a 2003 White House briefing where the waterboarding of al Qaeda suspects was discussed. Also in that meeting was the ranking Democrat on the intelligence committee Representative, Jane Harmon (R, CA), who afterward sent a letter of protest to the Bush administration over the situation. Pelosi has admitted that she was aware of that letter.
Yet, all this time, as she has ginned up the country to attack President Bush over "harsh interrogations" and his supposed criminal "secrecy," Pelosi has claimed she was never told that these techniques were in use.
One wonders how Pelosi can say with a straight face that she didn’t know anything about “torture” but at the same time was aware about Harmon’s letter protesting the same?
So, we are left with two possibilities here.
Scenario One:
Pelosi is incompetent. She has a habit of sending top aides to meetings from which she never bothers to inform herself of the outcome. Further, she does not pay much attention to the doings of her colleagues. In other words she is uninterested in her job or the duties of her office.
Scenario Two:
Pelosi is a liar. She knew everything and is only trying to obscure the fact that she knew all along of what the Bush administration was doing. She deemed it unimportant to worry over much about any "torture" until now. And now she is worried abut it only so that she can use it as a political device.
Either way, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is a loathsome character. And yet... and yet the left is falling all over itself to stand behind her.
So, do lies by leftists matter? Or is it only the ends that matter?
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Comments
pelosi has risen to the level
pelosi has risen to the level of her incompetence...and she lies
What proof?
Pelosi has always maintained that she was briefed on the Bush administration's legal rationale for torture and some possible EITs, but was told waterboarding had not been used.
The memo doesn't even state what techniques were discussed. All you have is the CIA's word against Pelosi's.The specific memo doesn't specify what she was told. What proof is that? You can take the discredited word of the CIA against Pelosi's, but I wouldn't make that bet.
Pelosi has always pushed for investigation, even when Obama was talking about looking forward. Somebody who had something to hide doesn't push for investigations into their own possible malfeasance.
Do you honestly believe what she says even though she has
contradicted herself?
If Pelosi wasnt aware of the techniques used, it either shows that she is incompetent, or a liar.
She still pushes for an investigation because she doesnt live in reality and believes that her constituents and the american people are stupid and will believe anything she says.
Notice
Notice all the anti-American lefty trolls that usually try to get me to stop posting have not come here? Even THEY can't stand up for this liar, Pelosi-nocchio! Their silence says it all.
I agree with you on this one.
I agree with you on this one. Mr. Houston. The lady is despicable. But, please let's keep the "anti-American" rhetoric down, can we? I think skayne is totally around the bend most of the time, but that doesn't make him anti-American. Plainly, he never had a civics or critical thinking class. Public education ain't what it used to be.
The Republic has always been full of dissenting voices, differing opinions, and differing motivations. I think skayne is in the wrong place, but I still think of him as an American. Really, many Americans would agree with him more than us. Hearts and minds!
Nice try at midirection
Like I said, there's no proof in that memo. Show me real proof. I know conservatives have a Pelosi hard-on, but your desperate need to believe something bad about Nancy Pelosi doesn't make it true.
Republicans are pretty desperate. The minute the CIA shows a memo were they told her specifically about waterboarding, you might have a case.
All this misdirection doesn't absolve the Bush administration of anything. And when it all comes out only they will be tarnished with the stain of torture.
I never said a word about
I never said a word about "absolving the Bush administration" on anything. If you have read any of my previous comments or posts, you would know I am dramatically opposed to torture, or "enhanced interrogation techniques" or whatever bullshit we feel like calling torture to make us feel better.
However, why does Pelosi or any other Dem get a pass? EVERYONE involved deserves to be investigated and, if appropriate, punished.
This is not a partisan thing, Mr. skayne. You gain neither credit nor credibility by defending one side or the other for possible criminal actions. And yes, I make the same complaints to conservatives.
Proof
Pelosi doesn't get a pass. But people who accuse her need definitive proof. The memo that was released is not proof. She already said she was briefed about techniques that might be used in the future, their legal rationale for those techniques, and that the briefing she took part in didn't include waterboarding.
The CIA hasn't shown anything to refute her statements. The minute there is proof, then the recriminations can begin.
Conservatives feel that by accusing Pelosi democrats will feel different about torture. We won't. You claim she knew. Prove it.
Finding PROOF, or a lack
Finding PROOF, or a lack thereof, is the reason that I support investigation. There is enough evidence to point to the POSSIBILITY that she knew something. I make no claims as to what she did or did not know. That's what investigation is for. I find the woman personally despicable, and have said so often, but I would support investigating her even if she was my secret old lady fantasy.
I also support investigating President Bush, Cheney, and the Man on the Damn Moon if there is the slightest evidence of possible malfeasance. My point is, NO ONE SHOULD GET A PASS.
As I said before, shrieking for Republican heads while defending Democrats who may have been involved in or enabled the same collusion is not endearing. A great many on the Right disagree with me, but I want to ferret out every torturer and torture enabler. I thought that this was something the Left wanted as well, one of the few areas where we are in agreement. Guess I was wrong.
Still no proof
Your previous statements made it clear you though enough proof was offered. I'm all for investigation. I'm not for standing by an allowing some to say Pelosi is proven to have known about the full extent of the Bush torture plan. It has not been proven, plain and simple.
The intent of this thread was to claim Pelosi's complicity was proven. I'm saying it isn't.
Don't know where you got the
Don't know where you got the idea that I was claiming Pelosi's guilt. I certainly think she knew something, but I'll let due process sort that out.
Mr Houston is certainly...enthusiastic, and I disagree with him sometimes, but his conclusions in this case are not unreasonable. Whether or not they represent the full facts remains to be seen. But, I can get behind what I think is the spirit of this post.
So we agree that investigation is called for. Glad to see that SOMETIMES at least, reason can penetrate through partisanship. It's two guys on a blog that is probably ultimately inconsequential, but it's a start.
Torture is torture is torture...
It doesn't matter who gets investigated or charged, just as long as justice is done to the people who broke the law by ordering the torture of prisoners - enemy combatants, whatever you care to categorize them as. Disbarment for the people responsible for the tatterdemalion legal reasoning in those disgraceful memos. (How do you overlook the fact that we prosecuted Japanese war criminals for waterboarding after WWII?)
Prosecuting Pelosi seems like a dubious undertaking. Even if it can be proven that she knew everything that was happening, she really wasn't in any position to stop it while Bush was still in office. Even after 2006 Bush could have just ducked behind executive privilege, and the ensuing string of lawsuits would have gone right through the election and inauguration, at which point it would have been entirely irrelevant. Crying wolf would also have involved leaking top secret documents - which would have had sizable chunks of the Republican party and media apparatus demanding her impeachment and indictment on treason charges. I somehow doubt that any leaks Pelosi dropped would have stopped Bush/Cheney from continuing to torture at their discretion.
Shepard Smith said everything that needed to be said about this whole un-American affair and definitely speaks for me on this issue, albeit in language I cannot repeat on a civilized discussion board.
Absolutely agree with your
Absolutely agree with your sentiments.
You make a very good point about prosecuting Pelosi. I still want it investigated. Even if we can't charge every torture enabler or apologist, we sure as hell should not be defending or ELECTING them.
They had better things to do.
They had better things to do. Me, I thought I might indulge your delusions.
Perhaps they are just ignoring the real troll in you
No wonder bullish conservatives like you feel victimized.
Ya, like you we should prematurely charge the wife of a drunken driver for murder... who's sitting in the back seat while the accident occured ... while we let the well meaning husband roam free.
Ex-Sen Graham Backs Up Pelosi: Never Briefed On Waterboarding
Proof?
You are asking for proof from an average citizen who cannot provide it. You know this and this is the thrust of your argument?
Let's look at the shifts in position, and the changing of her story over time until finally she said she was mislead. Now the memos may not have stated waterboarding, then what tactics then would Nancy Pelosi support because she clearly supported EIT tactics.
Now then, an investigation should ensue to find out if she unfairly accused the CIA of misleading her and the committee or if in fact the CIA mislead them.
Is anyone but Pelosi claiming to have been mislead, if she is out on a limb by herself claiming this, then she either has some real nuts or she is nuts and a liar.
Some of you came to the debate with your mind made up. You can no more prove she is being honest. This is not a court, it is the court of public opinion. We look at the facts before us and in the court of public opinion she is a liar. She could easily clear that up herself by not appearing to side step the questions and be direct.
I would venture to guess that she was for EIT after 9/11 and she didn't give a rip what kind. She may not have known b/c she was not paying attention to the details and she may have thought it best to leave it to the experts. Then she comes out against water boarding and she looks like a hypocrite. Well, she should just say she changed her mind since then. Because that appears to be the case. Her shifting makes her seem like she is on a political witch hunt and lying.
I thin an investigation would show the truth of the matter. I tend to think she is lying. She has a record of stretching the truth if you are paying attention. Do not be deceived because she has the letter "D" after her name. You don't want to be asleep at the wheel like all the republicans were the last 8 years. We need to stop dividing on party lines and make these politicians accountable. We can argue positions on issues when we know we have people in there who will represent us and not special interests and high paid lobbyists.