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Oh, it DOESN'T Take Away Secret Ballots? Um... YES, it Does.
Add to this informative video a recent Barron's editorial by Jim McTeague and we can see more of why card check is un-American and anti-democratic.
McTeague makes some fantastic points in his piece at Barron's, here are a few excerpts.
Obama's stance on the Employee Free Choice Act, introduced in Congress last week and likely to be retooled many times before coming to a vote, is outrageously backward for a man who says he's a progressive change agent. With the stroke of a pen, our president would reverse one of the great, unsung civil-rights movements in the history of Western democracies, a battle that set liberal reformers against corrupt, vested interests who controlled the general electorate through bribery and intimidation, and consequently accrued outsized political and financial power. The secret ballot (the anonymous ballot used today in the elections of modern democracies) finally broke the corrupt grip of these despicable men. They no longer knew with certainty if the voter whom they'd either blackmailed or bribed had cast his ballot as promised. Paying for votes immediately became a mug's game.
Unions want to destroy the rights of the worker.
However, University of Chicago law professor Richard A. Epstein -- who wrote a pro-business paper on the topic for the very conservative, pronouncedly Republican Hoover Institution at Stanford University -- predicts that the card-check option likely would displace the secret ballot in all cases. Why? Currently, unions will not file to have an organizing election until they accumulate signed authorization cards from well in excess 50% of a targeted unit's workers. "They need that cushion, because they know that worker defections will take place during the course of any election campaign in which management can present its own case."
He adds, "It follows, therefore, that no rational unions would risk the election if they have in their possession authorization cards from just over 50% of the members of the unit they seek to represent." With open ballots -- the card-check system -- union supporters could coerce and intimidate employees who otherwise might change their votes in the course of a campaign.
As I said in a reply to one of our more extremely left leaning posters here on TheNextRight, the best example is the poll taxes imposed on black voters in the South during Jim Crow days. Writers of the laws could give a wide-eyed, innocent demeanor claiming that the poll taxes didn't stop anyone from voting. They were right to the letter of the law. But these racists knew that it would effectively stop blacks from voting anyway.
So in this day, the card check act is the new Jim Crow poll taxes pretending that secret ballots are still available while effectively eliminating them in truth.
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Comments
so let me get this straight
so let me get this straight if the NRLB finds that a majority of a business do want a union, say 51% have signed cards, then they won't need to do an election (because you know they ALREADY know there is a majority that favors the creation of a union)
what if the board finds no such majority, and the employees wish for an election does it also say in this case the board "shall not direct an election" also? or would the option of a secret ballot still exist here? (please provide the actual text from he bill in your answer)
we shall see how long it will take you to answer that.
What a tool
The man in that video is quoting the section that says that card-check can be used instead of a secret ballot - we already know that! It doesn't say anything about MUST be used, or that the option of secret ballot is no longer available if thats what the employees want. Because, of course, those things aren't in the bill.
What a couple of tools you and he are.
Keep Spinning, NextRightNando
Yes, it does take away the secret ballot -- by even allowing for some bizarre public petitioning process, card check effectively strips workers of their right to choose, freely and privately, whether to unionize.
Of course, as you've pointed out in other threads, NextRIghtNando, our definition of a vote is very different. I don't think publicly signing a card is a vote -- you do. Again, I hope this is the argument you all take to the American people. "Sign Here -- Same as a Vote!"
If the workers want a private ballot
If the workers want a private ballot they can still have one - by not signing their cards.
The workers are still freely deciding whether to unionize, they just aren't doing it in an election that is run by and supervized by their employer, after months/years of delay and harassment of the empployees and illegal firings of the union organizers.
In this past election, I mailed in my ballot. It had my name and address all over it, and I had to sign it. Yet, it was still a real vote.
Are you following what Norm Coleman is doing in Minnesota? Absentee voters are being called as witnesses to discuss their ballots. Where's your outrage about that?
NRN, really, how naive can you possibly be?
You'll get out of your car at the donut shop and a couple of co-workers and two or three "informational organizers" from the union will stick the card in your face and "suggest" that the "right thing to do" is to sign the card.
I know this may date me, but even the clueless Millenials might have heard of this guy .
Most workers will realise that demanding a "private ballot" under those "noncoercive conditions" might buy them a 50 yard box seat under Giants Stadium.
I'll see your silly hypothetical and raise you a scholarly study
First off, Ironman, Jimmy Hoffa was A REPUBLICAN!
Secondly, I'll see your silly hypothetical and raise you a scholarly study from the CEPR: (warning, PDF):
Of the two parties, the employer and the union organizers - which one is the only one that has a list containing the names of all the employees? and their home addresses? and which one has the power to cut off the livelihood of each one of them? The employer, that's who.
apple v. orange
So the solution to improper employer behavior and intimidation is to pass a law that encourages union initimidation.
Yeah, makes sense. To you, maybe
Notice this "scholarly study" (paid for by the SEIU, perhaps?) doesnt even address the central problem of card check.
We are not going to see folks invited to Starbucks over a latte by folks who will accept "no" for an answer.
I'm actually not unsympathetic to reforming labor laws; but there are some lines you just don;t cross. This one is over the line.
Convincing
You don't like a study so you just assume that it was bought and paid for by the union. You feel no need to back your assumption up, becasue, well, in IronmanWorld, everyone believes what Ironman says.
You don't like unions so you assume that they all employ leg breakers. No evidence, no supporting documentation, you just say it becasue it sounds right in your mind.
Why don't you go to your local police precinct or firehouse and ask the gentlemen inside if they support unions becasue a scary man told them they should?
They didn't need card check to organize
I live down the block from a cop and give money to their union's PBA FR every year.
On a bigger issue, I wonder why the Fourth Amendment is now disposable to liberals on union organizing . Oops, forgot, they want to do away with privacy to collect tolls , too.
On the "legbreaking" angle; I guess the near riot outside a CT hospital in the '80's (when I worked for the city government there) didn';t happen. The striking nurses spoke calmly to the neighbors who heckled them and to the nonunion strike breakers. Yeah. That's what happened. No fistfights. No arrests. Naw.
And this flick was a fantasy film
I guess when you're as old as I am you just don't get our new socialist reality,
Why is it that cops don't need card check to organize?
Yes, Ironman, why is it that cops don't need card check to organize? Is it possibly becasue they don't have an employer who is willing and able to spend millions of dollars on union-busting consultants and lawyers??
Now you really show you are naive
Here's a list of the various skirmishes the former CT Governor had against just one union.
If you think state and local officials simply roll over and play dead and fetch for union demands, well, maybe you live in California, but I can assure you even in a Blue State like CT the state pays millions annually in legal fees in suits and arbitrations with bargaining units.
And what does that have to do with eliminating a worker's right to privacy? If you want to punish employers for union busting, that's another story and the GOP would probably not go to the mattresses over that.
The fact the unions are going to the mattresses over card check does not foster any sense of their good intentions in implementing this in a noncoercive manner.
I suspect workers across the nation will get this sort of treatment if it is enacted.
Like liquor during Prohibition...
...corrupt organizers are the only elements left when people of goodwill and good intentions are run off the scene. The continuing hostile attitudes of corporate America to a perfectly legal action by its workforce insures the worse elements are left to fill the void. It's a though corporate America believes it can only turn a profit if it exploits its workforce more than their competition.
If corporate America instead saw the organization of their own workforce by their own workers as a positive step, their workers would simply organize and represent themselves. Sure, they might seek higher wages, but they would also feel subject to the sting of marketplace competition should they get too far out of line.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Which One Has the POWER?
The employer? Until the employee joins a union, then it's the union that has that power. I wonder, NRN, if you've ever belonged to a union? Ever gone down the job site and waited in a crowd of men to be selected for day labor? Ever notice who gets selected and who doesn't?
Where does this rosey-eyed romanticized idea of unions come from? Jimmy Hoffa's party affiliation is irrelevant -- the man was a crook, and his union was crooked from top to bottom, as many were in those days.
As somone who's had to bargain with NYC unions in the construction trade, I can tell you first hand that it's just as bad today in certain unions, that some of them are still mobbed up.
These people can be thugs too -- so a worker in any workplace needs to have the privacy of a secret ballot in order to ensure an honest, fair decision. What is wrong with that? Why not leave well enough alone?
It's amusing
It's amusing to me that anyone would give NotRightNimload so much time at debate!
Once again proving
that you've got nothin' !