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Healthcare battle gone wild.

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 01:08

Code Pink and Pro Life square off in front of Pelosi's office

That would be Fr. Norman Weslin, who we last saw being arrested at Notre Dame.

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A Freak Show

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 09:39.

 The Capitol Police have got better things to do than deal with these mental defectives. I hope they all get jail time and stiff fines to recover the taxpayer dollars wasted by this nonsense.

Pelsi says people are astrotuff if they are in a suit and tie.

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 14:06.

I would agree that what took place at Pelosi's office was not what I would want to be the norm. However this is how they do things in her district people in suit and tie are considered fakes her district plays politics like hockey. If somebody cares about something they would be willing to chant.

I would not go so far as to say Capital police have got better things to do than deal with protesters, both extremes are in error and one could go to far in either direction by trying to avoid an error; like eating under eating is bad, overeating is also bad . I would not say that because of one extreme say overeating that people should not eat.

How people are provided the right to assemble needs to be balanced. I think the video shows a balance ... wild yes but balanced. The prolife Operation Rescue could of easily drowned out the dozen code pink protesters in PJs who were chanting "medicare for all" - they did not.

Personally I would rather not live in her district - I prefer a district where people with quieter voices can be heard.

 

WTF?

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 14:49.

"Pelosi says people are astrotuff (sic) if they are in a suit and tie"

WTF?

First, please provide a link showing that what you just said is true.

Second, WTF has that got to do with these jerk-offs wasting police resources and burning up taxpayer dollars in the process.

Again: I'm hoping for jail time and heavy fines to pay back those of us who were working yesterday while these nuts were indulging themselves.

 

Google pelosi tea parties astrotuff, or watch fox news

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 15:05.

Also on thinkprogress http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/15/pelosi-astroturf/

 

 

I'll ask again

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 15:19.

 Provide a link showing that Pelosi says "people in a suit and tie are astroturf". Or even astrotuff, if you prefer. What you posted did not. 

Then explain how on earth that justifies the ridiculous conduct of the protesters yesterday.

Thank you for correcting me she said "they’re too well dressed"

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 15:52.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/05/boxer-protesters-too-well-dressed-...

Since nobody wore a tuxedo, I hope she does not think normal people walk around in the PJs? Is a dress shirt to much? Honestly most people with jobs need to at least dress up that much. I hope it was a just a coat and tie she was refering to; But that is my interruption - she did not say tie.

Forgive me I did not intend to mislead. I wish she would post on her site what the correct attire is for a citizen who wants to speak to their representative. Because I may be to well dressed right now.

That is Barbara Boxer, not Nancy Pelosi.

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 16:36.

 That is Barbara Boxer, not Nancy Pelosi. And she never says astroturf. So that's you wrong on three counts. And you still haven't offered an iota of explanation of how this justifies those idiots.

Your Hypocrisy is showing.

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 18:18.

In your comments about Same Sex Marriage ... you want state resources to be used because you say it would make Gays Happy to be married. Yet you do not want state resources used to maintain the peace - Nancy Pelosi also believes in relative morality so what is acting like an idiot to one person is acceptable to another. I will again refer you to code pink demonstrators also in the video - They are acceptable to Pelosi. So to communicate with Pelosi it is logical to do so in the same language, and manner that she is accustomed and appears to respect. She has ignored millions of letters and less noicy attempt to communicate to her that the people of this country do not want a Government take over of healthcare. It makes little sense to continue to speak softly and expect different results.

- But then again I think it made Operation Rescue members happy and maybe some conservatives got a little joy by watching people start to stand up and say no to tyranny.

- And again there is the right of people to inform the government of their grievances. And they would not want to be mistaken for members of the GOP.

When you are in a hole, stop digging.

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 18:36.

 Wayne, I know it is embarrassing for you - you twisted a statement made by Barbara Boxer and then tried to attribute it to Nancy Pelosi in a bizarre attempt to try to justify the conduct of a bunch of nutcases, then posted a video not even realizing that it showed BB not NP!!!

However, with this post you are just discrediting yourself further.

Given the events of yesterday and today, the idea that the Capitol police have nothing better to do than mop up the grandstanding of a bunch of whack jobs is pathetic.

She has ignored millions of letters and less noicy (sic) attempt (sic) to communicate to her that the people of this country do not want a Government take over of healthcare. It makes little sense to continue to speak softly and expect different results.

You lost - November, 2008.  This was a campaign issue. Americans list rising healthcare costs and unavailability of access to healthcare among their highest concerns. The Democrats were voted in in order to do something about that. The losing side is fully entitle to continue to voice their opinion and opposition, but within the bounds of the law.

 

I know the promises - What we have is bait and switch

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 18:43.

non sequitur much?

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 18:48.

 Just in case you aren't aware: that video is non-responsive the discussion, and the person in it is also not Nancy Pelosi!

Wayne, I'm going to guess you are of Medicare age. Have you rejected your benefits?

Do you have a link for your assertion people want pelosicare?

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 19:32.

This does not seem to help support your claim. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/h...

Although I respect your desire to be formal in the regard that when a claim is made the person making the claim has the obligation to show evidence - it is not the burden of somebody who disagrees to present evidence to prove a falsehood.

And you get a point because I did not show evidence of Pelosi saying protesters are overdressed

So be my guess=t and present evidence that people want a what is being presented for healthcare.

No red herrings please.

Here are three

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 19:52.

 Here are three links:

one

two

three

and here is a bonus item.

 

Well, it's one of those ethnicy women from the Left Coast . . .

Submitted by Crow on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 21:10.

 nt

Those three are for the change that we need.

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 20:15.

Obama got a standing ovation for his plan to bring all parties to the table.  Awesome, we could use that kind of change!

Where is it? Nobody sees it in today's unemployment numbers, Nobody sees it in Pelosicare, no standing ovations today:

It is either bait and switch or Obama is incompetent. Yes he won a historic election. The first Black President, The end of partisan politics, Transparency in Government, The people will have a voice, they will be able to see the bills before they are voted on.

I can go on of how wonderful things should be when Obama becomes President. So tell me, when is he going to start living up to his promises. I would like to see a Black President who listens to all the people of the US. One who ends partisanship. One who listens to doctors and seniors on health care.

I want that President! Not one who divides the country.

Doctors and seniors

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 20:24.

 You mean, like the AMA and AARP?? Guess you missed the news yesterday.

I'm sure he does listen to all of the people. But he can't produce a bill that will make all of the people happy. So he has to choose. And his choice is to do what he campaigned on what he was elected to do - enact health care reform. And that means breaking some eggs.

Lets ask Jim DeMint about partisanship in the healthcare debate:

“if [conservatives are] able to stop Obama on this it will be his Waterloo. It will break him.” 

So remember - it was the Republicans that chose to walk away from the table and behave like children.

 

I guess you missed Fox "AARP members tear up membership cards"

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 20:39.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/10/aarp-faces-backlash-seniors-h...

And I am sure you know Catholics and the Christian Coalition do not support Pelosicare. That would be about 85% of all Americans.

You, sir, are an innumerate dofus.

Submitted by Crow on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 21:19.

 Obama got 54-55% of the Catholic vote, about 25% of the population,  That would account for the 85% approval rating of President Dobson.

And I guess you don't understand

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 21:41.

 the difference between the actions of a fringe minority as opposed the opinions of the majority.

And do you REALLY think that Pelosi and Obama are going to hang it all out there for something that they "know" only 15% of all Americans support?

Catholics, just like everyone else, are worried about affordable healthcare for their families. The Bishops have the luxury of having healthcare as one of the perks of their job - it comes with the ring and robe and the mansion. The laity - not so much.

Someone actually did a poll of 923 Catholics in September. 73% supported the public option. Here is a link to the PDF so you can read all about it for yourself.

And that applies to "Doctors and seniors" or AMA and AARP

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 21:56.

Thanks for providing your own answer, I would not of done it so spirited - Yes indeed just because the Catholic Church and Christian Coalition are against Pelosi care does not mean that all people who call themselves Catholic and Christian by virtue of an endorsement blindly go along.

Likewise AMA and AARP endorcements while important do no bring along all doctors or seniors.

The New England Journal of Medicine conducted a poll

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 22:14.

 of more than 2,800 doctors and found that 72% of them supported instituting a public option.

 As for seniors - well you've done as much as you could to scare the shit out of them, but they are beginning to get wise to the tactics: here's what the AP reported last month:

In a significant change, opposition among older Americans dropped 16 percentage points. Seniors have been concerned that Congress would stick them with the bill by cutting their government-run Medicare program to pay for covering the uninsured. Among the most reliable voters, they were much more wary of the changes than the public as a whole. The gap has narrowed.

 

Among seniors, opposition fell from 59 percent in September to 43 percent now. Almost four in 10, 38 percent, now support it, compared with 31 percent in September.

So, nice try, but none of the groups that you are sure are solidly opposed to healthcare reform are actually opposed to healthcare reform. The only people who are against it are the people who are totally invested in the idea that government can't do anything - I mean ANYTHING - right.  Ironically, many of them are people like yourself and your congressman who already receive health care via a government plan.

 

 

78 percent of active Catholics saying abortion is morally wrong

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 22:26.

Do you have a national poll?

We could both find polling data to throw back and forth for years. There is no end to it and it changes daily.

I just gave you a link to a national poll

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 22:33.

 Here it is again.

Poll of 923 Catholics in September. 73% supported the public option. Here is a link to the PDF so you can read all about it for yourself.

 And, BTW - only 16% of Catholics want abortion to be illegal in all cases.

 

That is a 60 day old poll limited to a select group of Catholics

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 22:42.

Do you have a national poll of all voters.

If you are unaware polling religious groups is a bit tricky as to how you define what is a Catholic. If you ask Pelosi she would say she was a Catholic - but she would not reflect the position of Catholics that say go to church vs somebody who was baptist Catholic. So without more data it is kind of meaningless.

Have you hear the saying that statistics don't lie but liars use statistics - your post comes from a source that claims to be catholic IE that the Pope speaks the word of God - But The Pope is wrong? That is about as Catholic as a Mormon

Catholics don't believe the Pope speaks the word of God.

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 22:54.

 Catholics don't believe the Pope speaks the word of God.

The Vatican - which does not equal Catholics - claims that the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, but outside of Opus Dei who gives a rats about that.

Nancy Pelosi attends mass and met the Pope at the Vatican - so I'm afraid you don't get to decide that she isn't really Catholic enough to count.

Do you think Catholics believe in life after death.

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 23:02.

That they will face judgement?

I think Catholics are just like everyone else

Submitted by John Smith on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 23:08.

 and they worry about going into bankruptcy if little Johnny gets leukemia.

In your other posts you've revealed that you are a sick and twisted old bastard so we are done here. 

Sad you do not see any difference.

Submitted by Wayne from Jere... on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 23:16.

n/t